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Karen Rontowski – Energetic Protection

karen rontowski mind body free podcast episode cover


Karen Rontowski – Energetic Protection

Karen Rontowski - Energetic Protection

I chat with the delightful Karen Rontowski about how to protect your energy and her unique blend of stand up comedy and tarot.

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Instagram: @rontowski
TikTok: @rontowski

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Full Show Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:01:04

Abigail: Hello and welcome to the mind-body free Broadcast. I am your host, Abagail Moss. I’m a shaman and here to awaken the healers. Do not simply teach you but to bring you home to your own divinity, nature and spirit, so that you may remember the depth of your own being, power and purpose and embody your original medicine. In all that you do, this work is not for the faint of heart, but for the driven seeker will not quit until they find what calls them. This is for those who are ready to step into their power, even though it fucking terrifies them. This is for the medicine, women, the light workers and the wearied souls who’ve lived countless lifetimes. This is a path to mend your deepest of wounds, to remember the innocence of your nature.

00:01:04 – 00:02:55

Abigail: This is a way of embodiment, integrity and awakening. It is a portal back to your soul and a bridge between worlds. This is where we reclaim our magic, our birthright and our true being, a magic that was hidden for centuries by religion, madness and fear. It is a power that stirs in our wombs and a knowing whispered by our ancestors. It is a song sung by the universe, it is our birthright, our divinity, and we are here to remember it, embody it and return it to the world from which it was hidden. Welcome this season, to reclaim your magic, welcome beautiful lightworkers and friends! I want to share with you all a free facebook group where I go live each week with free trainings and I share healing resources and it’s a beautiful hearted community focused on healing your mind-body and spirit, tuning in with your purpose and sharing your gifts. You can check it out with the link in the show notes: heart space, healing for seekers without further ado. I hope you enjoy the show. All right, I am here with Karen Antoski. Did I pronounce your last name right?

00:02:55 – 00:03:02

Karen: Perfect, and thank you for even attempting that. It might be wrong, because I get all my guests names wrong.

00:03:04 – 00:03:11

Abigail: All right, I have to start asking the beginning, because so many times my brain makes up a name and it’s not the reality of it.

00:03:11 – 00:03:16

Karen: Have you ever heard someone that was like a friend for three years and you’re like, I don’t know their last name?

00:03:16 – 00:03:26

Abigail: Fortunately, facebook makes it easy, unless it’s one of those made up names, and then it’s like who knows, it’s only only the shadow knows the answer to that one.

00:03:27 – 00:03:31

Karen: For years I thought my friend’s name was Terry, but.

00:03:35 – 00:04:21

Abigail: I like that right, so I’m going to read your bible real quick. So all of the lovely people, I feel like a lot of people, know who you are, already talk to different people and it’s like imperial care and partial care. I’m like everybody knows her, but I’m going to read your bio anyway. So Karen is both a stand-up comedian and a tea reader and often mixes two on-stage she has 35 years experience in stand-up 25 inter and 20 in the field of paranormal. They tell me you put on there. She’s so old, which is hilarious. You’re still young person, ever been doing this a long time. So can you tell me a bit about your story, like what came first and how did you get started in it?

00:04:22 – 00:05:29

Karen: Well, it’s funny because standup really came first, but I was sort of one of those people that right from us I knew I wanted to do that and I was always into the paranormal, was always had the books. I was always, you know, whatever was out there probably was like a five-year old conspiracy theorist wondering where the big wheel came from or something like that, you know. But I just have always had these desires and I remember when I got in college I was watching someone who actually became a friend of mine, stand-up comedian, on a show and I was like I could do that. I really do. And then I moved to Vegas and was working at Caesar’s Palace and I met a bellman that did stand-up and he took me to my first open, Mike, and it was terrible. Becaus, you’re always terrible in the beginning, but it didn’t matter. I was like I’m doing this no matter what, and then I always still had saw Schic and went into the paranormal. But when I started to go on the road I started to visit haunted places and then that’s kind of how it all sort of started to come together.

00:05:30 – 00:05:57

Abigail: I love that and there’s a lot of pieces that I want to unpack. The first one is, and I think this is a really interesting thing with standup. People specifically, is that, like all things, we suck in the beginning, but most of us look stuck quietly in secret behind closed doors. But you can’t do that with standup. So what gives you the grit? What gave you the grit to keep going whenever one’s like boo? Get off this, hoping that ever happened? But you know when it feels like that.

00:05:58 – 00:07:04

Karen: Well, you know it’s a funny thing, because stand-up actually seems to have failure built-in in that people expect hecklers or they expect things to go wrong. But what’s funny about it is? I wonder how many people do it. A lot of people do it once and then don’t ever do it again. But it’s something that it’s a curiosity, I think, because you can do the same joke a 100 times and the 100 and first time the whole audience looks at you like. What are you doing you? So it’s always. Did I deliver it, Wong was half a second off. Is this not the going? It’s really curiosity. I think that drives a comic to just keep going. You always have to have your comedy friends that you kind of commiserate with when something goes wrong. But even if you’ve been doing it, you know I’ve seen the best of the best die. I think stand-up is such a curiosity that you just always want to keep going. It gets in you. It is you, my friend would always say it’s not like you’re a bank teller and then you go home and you’re done with your job. It’s you’re always your job.

00:07:05 – 00:07:44

Abigail: I get that. It’s like a healer. It is me, it’s my life, it’s you just turn it off and then come back the next day or like when you’re doing shamanic healing. It’s not like all of that energy is just done. It’s like exactly exactly and it’s interesting that it sounds like comedies, almost fickle, like you’re saying on there and first time lands so differently, and there’s no way, I guess, that you can predict how that’s going to happen. It’s not like it’s a science and rinse. Repeat, it’s good, it’s not good, it’s just the energy of the crowd, your energy, the times where the stars are relied, I don’t know.

00:07:45 – 00:08:18

Karen: Yes, well, every audience has its own personality and one no two are alike. It just is like that. Everybody has a different sense of humor. Now, obviously, people are way more offended very easily. Or you know you can say something and just make people nervous, even if you’re not saying anything. I mention guns sometimes and I have no opinion either. I do five minutes, no opinion either way. But once you say guns, you know there’s people going, she’s goin to be against, she’s going to, and then you have to. You know it’s it’s one of my favorite jokes, because it does test them not.

00:08:19 – 00:08:40

Abigail: Totally, and it’s like a reflection of this tense world that we’re in this very divided world, I think it’s kind of interesting about the comedian is that they there used to be like the role of the commune was in many ways to like bring up the stuff, this darkness, but in a way that we can face it. It’s like look how funny this is. This is so messed up.

00:08:41 – 00:09:38

Karen: You know there is a sociology to comedy. Also at point, Rosanne was big. That was when feminism was coming up. She was the domestic goddess. Then you had the backlash, which was Andrew Dice Clay. Now we’re going to offend everybody, and then you had the backlash to that which was signed, which is: don’t say anything, it’s I’m saying nothing, and now we’re kind of going. I’m not sure where we’re going right now, but I know the difference now is people don’t just let a joke go by and you know that’s fine. Go to the next joke. For some reason things are being taken. So personally now I’m not really a controversial comic because I’m like I’m the idiot. I always say my job is to make bigger mistakes than you so you can laugh at mine and feel better about yours. So that’s sort of my angle, but anything political. You better have that audience and that better be your cult coming to see it, because otherwise it’s very, very.

00:09:38 – 00:09:39

Abigail: Dangerous.

00:09:40 – 00:09:41

Karen: And dangerous is the work.

00:09:42 – 00:09:52

Abigail: Yeah, because we are very tribal these days in our beliefs, in ideologies, and why were you going all these haunted houses when you were on the road? Why does that happen?

00:09:53 – 00:10:54

Karen: You know what? I didn’t even know what I was looking for and then for a while I had a little series and everything was a minute-long and I always played with bringing this back. But it was, you know, paranormal care on the TV show and I would go and just have jokes about the places and how they were haunted and who haunted them and stuff like that. But it was really I always wanted to investigate. And then finally I lived in Sandy. No, no, I lived in Ella. I went to meet up dotcom and I met a group that did investigations and started going with them. And then I met sort of my mentor guy named Tommy. We just shot a spiritual protection class. Yeah, it’s to be coming out, so I’m not sure when, but he’s friends to this day. He’s been friends the whole time, but I was just interested in the evidence and how you get it and still everything I would say, ufos are just one of the things I don’t actively research. It’s not that I’m not interested, but there isn’t anything about out of this three d reality that I’m not interested in.

00:10:54 – 00:11:00

Abigail: Of that I mean the world is infinite. Right. There’s so many possibilities, so much mystery.

00:11:00 – 00:11:01

Karen: Yes.

00:11:01 – 00:11:08

Abigail: Absolutely made up dot com like I loved that, please, I think when I first started photography I met so many people there. What a great system!

00:11:08 – 00:11:24

Karen: I just thought about that because I’m here in Utica, where it’s very small, where I moved back to take care of my folks and I thought I should look on there because I went to find a couple of paranormal teams and nobody really answered. Then I was like: why am I not on that website looking for still a good website?

00:11:24 – 00:11:34

Abigail: Totally love that, and so you co taught this class on spiritual protection. So what is that like and how does that tie in with paranormal investigation?

00:11:35 – 00:12:49

Karen: So my friend Tommy, the class was more me interviewing him because he’s actually my teacher, even if I know the stuff. He has been growing up with the paranormal since he was 13 years old and he’s just the most amazing person I can’t even describe because he doesn’t like the term demonologist. But he has worked on some stuff that I think the rest of us would just curl up and in a ball and go away. He knows so much and he worked with the best. So I met him when I first got into investigating. He had a radio show or internet and I emailed him and his partner. I said: do you guys want a comedian to? Do you know reporting and stuff and he was like yeah, so I met him for coffee and he’s been my friend the whole time. His wife is one of my best friends and I constantly go back to him for information. Or is this right? But the thing that people don’t realize is when they go investigating and they’re going to haunted places, they need a certain level of spiritual protection so that something doesn’t attach or follow them home. He taught me from a place of extreme caution from the beginning, not saying I haven’t made my mistakes because I have.

00:12:50 – 00:12:50

Abigail: Who has?

00:12:51 – 00:13:08

Karen: Yeah, that’s one of my favorite saying is once you look into the paranormal, the paranormal looks back at you, so you need to go in protected spiritually, which probably you’ve talked about on your podcast. Some people want to go in and tell ghosts, you can touch me or I want to feel, and all that is an invitation. All that’s a big.

00:13:09 – 00:13:26

Abigail: Yes, agreed. So what is the main thing that you do to protect your energy when going into a space that you know there’s you know all kinds of stuff, but I mean even when we’re walking around, when we’re going to cost, you know there’s energy floating around everywhere. What do you do to protect yourself?

00:13:27 – 00:15:48

Karen: I was in a hotel this weekend and although it wasn’t a haunted hotel, it was a haunted hotel and was having a lot of trouble sleeping. So generally I believe that I have a connection to Archangel Michael. I think everybody has a connection to a particular Archangel that would be mine and I walked out on some really tricky situations with prayer or asking him to come. Help me try to daily remember to say thank you every day for my protection. That’s a big one. Any type of prayer or gratitude, I think, start the way I picture. It is sort of like if you’re grounded, if you’re sort of aware of who you are, that’s a big one. I feel like you get this white sort of shield that most things are probably going to want to avoid, or it doesn’t look easy. In fact, a while back I had a sort of psychic attack at night and the next morning I was like what happened and my guide said there’s a particular part of your. They said something about what I was going through. You need to deal with that because it’s a weak spot in your era and this thing will attach or come through that spot. So then I worked on journaling and therapy and that particular hang up and everything kind of got better. So this is a story, though I do tell about how I did end up in a situation that was. We’ll just say it was the worst that you can get. As for spirits coming at you or spirit attachment, it was demonic and as soon as it was in the room I knew and I looked at my partner and she wasn’t doing ok. She was walking around like she didn’t know who she was. She was spinning like a computer kind of, and I started to get up and then in my head I heard: just take care of yourself, you can’t this is too big, you can’t help her. And then I heard my very first Tero teacher say: they want your mind. So over and over I kept saying my name is Karen Antoski and I know exactly who I am. My name is Karen Antoski, and and I preached this. I’ve probably said it a 100 times on my podcast because I was the only one that went home from that investigation and I believe that is the answer to. Even if you think you don’t know who you are, keep saying that and don’t let anything take your mind.

00:15:50 – 00:16:44

Abigail: Tingles, as you say, that that is so, I think, powerful in the work that I’ve done in demonology, which you can get sticky, and I found that to be true too. It’s the beliefs. It starts through the mind and that may come in heretically in all different areas in your field or body. But the entry point is through the belief, it’s through the mind and if you don’t believe, you know yourself or don’t believe that you’re safe, I think I find that to be a really big one. And if someone has fear, the don’t believe that they’re strong or that they’re powerful, then it’s like that’s the way in, or you mentioned earlier, having weak spot. I find those beliefs of like not worthy not good enough, not safe, not love all of these beliefs, that these energies can come in and start spinning more stories that create even more separation from yourself and source. Thank you for sharing that. I think it’s going really good for people to hear that.

00:16:44 – 00:17:27

Karen: That is like ground-level just kind of basic. If you can do that even when you’re scared, even when you’re scared of other people or anything like that, that’s quite good. You’re right, it can get kind of tricky when it’s something anchored in a house or somebody has conjured something. That’s you know. It’s like. The other day I was listening to some one. The one thing Tommy is livid about: he is the most humble person, he is the most. Non ego you can’t bring. Go into this and we were talking about something and I just remember going: don’t say always or never. In this situation everyone is different. All you can do is know who you are and everything else is changing all the time.

00:17:28 – 00:17:42

Abigail: Absolutely yeah, be aware of yourself, be aware of your energy, and that’s number one, because if you don’t have that, you can’t help someone else. So fill up your own, put on your own oxygen mask before assisting your friend.

00:17:42 – 00:18:44

Karen: And the big, big thing, I think, is the shadow side. For example, I was brought up in a home that was very passive, Grassi, and it wasn’t until later in life that I was like. That’s what it means and that’s what we’re doing. And once you see it you can’t see it. So even in my mind, when I go to that place of I want something and I start to manipulate through passive aggressiveness, I hear it in my head. Okay, so I’m very aware, and then I can’t do it because I see it now. But if someone is really in denial about that, those are the kind of things or the perfection. There’s a big push for women to be perfect. I’m not bad. I’m really a great person. That is where things really really come in or smaller things can attach faster. This is my experience. Like I said, not always, but I feel like knowing that you can be anything, we’re capable of everything and anything, and once you know that you’re almost a little more protected.

00:18:46 – 00:19:37

Abigail: Yes, and thank you for saying that, I think one of the biggest lies that darker energies tell us is that we’re not powerful and it’s one of the biggest lies that we believe other energy only have as much power over us as we agree that they have. So I find sometimes these things come in and be like I am dark and scary and I’m going to take over and it’s like you’re not clear everywhere that you are doing that. Clear, everything that you know your job, because you’re we’re the ones in this body and like you said I, you know I’m around Towsky. When you remember that, then you claim yourself, you claim your space, you claim your body and with free will there’s nothing more powerful than that. So something outside trying to manipulate you, it’s just not allowing yourself to agree with that manipulation.

00:19:37 – 00:20:18

Karen: Yes, and also I like it because it’s sort of internal work that you can do. I listen to a lot of paranormal radio and there’s guys that come on that are demon hunters and that are, you know, I’m doing an exercise and I have never done anything like this. What I’m doing that a little, that’s nothing you go do that, I’m not. I’m you can do that somewhere else. I’m not hanging around for that, but actually just be able to hold your ground is what you need. That it doesn’t begin. You know a real possession or real problem has level start. You want to start with knowing yourself and knowing what you feel like. This doesn’t feel all right.

00:20:19 – 00:21:24

Abigail: Exactly, and I found that too, like with the layers of possession, I love that we’re talking about this. By the way, I’ve never heard a conversation outside of my shamanic training class about possession. I think it’s one of those. It’s one of the scarier things right. Most people don’t talk about. It’s not like your coffee talk conversation, but it’s important because a lot of people face it and worked with people who were aware they were fighting possession and people who weren’t aware that they were fighting possessions based on their society, beliefs and beliefs that they grew up with. And it’s hard because I can help someone who who is aware of it, someone who’s not aware of it. It’s hard because it’s hard for me to explain what’s going on to them and their family and have them continue coming back and working with that. And those people just get labeled as insane and medicated. But when the possession is kind of going on a deeper stage, where they’re really attaching to these thoughts, feeling stuff in their body, what would you say would be the thing to do at that point? Would you continue affirming you are who you are? What would you do at that point?

00:21:24 – 00:22:18

Karen: I would always keep that, but for a person that is that’s really going on, for at first I would go to church, I would go, I would find your faith or a healer or something like that. It’s very hard, once it started, to expel anything yourself. And also this isn’t a coup, but you might need to know more about what’s going on and who it is. The one thing I am great at is: I have a web of people. When someone comes to me and tell me what’s going on, I go, oh, you go that way or okay, here’s our questioning. Fill this out. We’ll help you this. I’ll ask Tommy on the yellow pages. That’s still a thing. I don’t think it is in the pages of help. So I would say the first thing to do is to get help and I would go spiritual. Not that a therapist wouldn’t help, but you have to be very careful to have a therapist that doesn’t just go your nuts.

00:22:20 – 00:22:20

Abigail: Take these drugs!

00:22:21 – 00:24:28

Karen: So everything is a little bit of how far along, as you know, there’s a varying degree of how big this thing is or what kind of attachment is it? It’s sort of a big array of things that could be going on whenever you work with someone. We have a very long questioner that we send out and what we have found is. There’s a lot of questions in it that people wouldn’t know why we’re gathering that information. But to us it tells us what we’re looking at or if it’s something like that or what’s ultra guys that’s coming off the person, and also, if it is a psychological issue. Now someone could have a psychological issue which enhances what’s going on, the possession or the attack absolutely. But usually if you have something that is so blatantly. We had a woman that moved into a house where she grew up and she was having a incubus attacker sexual attack. And as we go through the question, are we find out that she was molested by her stepfather in this house? So now we have a lot more going on than just let cleanse and get this thing out. We have a pycoon, poltergeist entity thing, kind of a three-way now. What was very interesting about this is? She wanted us to show up and wave a magic wand and get rid of it, and we were like that’s not how we work. This has to be something where you’re participating. You derstand, especially if you are the poltergeist that is sort of expelling this energy and she got very angry and disappeared. So that question is sort of a great shield, for do you really want this to go away? Are you in it? So that’s where we start now, other people, we’ve gotten a questioner and immediately be like: okay, we know what this is. Do this about. This is a residual energy. We’re going to put magnets on the wall or something like that, so usually we can get it pretty quick. But it is interesting that you have to know the whole thing that’s going on. I hope I didn’t like that question too.

00:24:28 – 00:25:35

Abigail: No, that’s great. People come to me with the stuff. I find that the causes are either karma, like there’s something that happened in past life that was dramatic, or they did something that’s coming back around on them and or drama, and so, like you mention with the Soubise sexual abuse incident, so like I worked with someone for a year and they had all of this abuse and drama that had happened to them since childhood and there was a lot to release and a lot to unpack there, and they’ve been tormented by demons and dark energies since childhood as well. But it was matter of healing that drama and empowering them to release these entities, because this was the world that they were in. So let’s empower you to navigate this world, and now they are an incredible healer and the energies that they see are a lot lighter. But when the darker energies come there, able to say right, let’s get lost, get out of here. I’m not weak, you know, and I know who I am, have healed a lot of this, and I find it’s like the drama becomes this lens that we see the world with through fear, and that fear is the frequency that draws these energies to us, because that’s the reality that we’ve been living in.

00:25:36 – 00:26:04

Karen: And most people do not believe this. I’m always OK with anybody. That doesn’t because we’re talking about a world that we don’t live in, a rule where there’s no rules, where we’re doing the best we can. Like Tommy says, we just won’t want stay on this level right here because sort of my paranormal background, sometimes you just get a bad house, sometimes you just move into the house and I know a lot of people like. No, that’s not really it’s always and I like, sometimes you just moved into the wrong house.

00:26:05 – 00:26:24

Abigail: Yes, oh yeah, could be, could be an indian burial ground. It could be haunted you now from all kinds of ways, and that’s kind of like. Usually I find those are the easiest cases because like oh great, there’s no attachment to you. That’s clear, but I mean I haven’t worked in all the kinds of houses that you’ve worked in, and so not always the easiest.

00:26:26 – 00:26:28

Karen: Yeah, it’s always different. I’ll just let that with that.

00:26:31 – 00:26:33

Abigail: It’s ard, it’s multifaceted.

00:26:34 – 00:26:38

Karen: That’s great. That’s a great way to say it. Like every case there’s a little different.

00:26:40 – 00:26:51

Abigail: It’s kind of nice because you know nobody is the same. It’s not like our going to go into the office and you get bored at clucking and clacking out. It’s like, well, who knows what kind of intentional being we’re going to find today. Let’s go see.

00:26:51 – 00:26:53

Karen: Exactly exactly.

00:26:54 – 00:26:59

Abigail: So that’s cool that you work with Tommy on this and he’s demonologist. So how did you find him?

00:26:59 – 00:28:03

Karen: I emailed him he had a radio show, so I wanted to be a guest journalist on his podcast, a boy that has to be at least 20 and 25 years ago, and then we just always stayed in touch and he just turned out to be a great friend. He’d started coming to my shows. He’s actually a TV editor and we’re doing a special together. That was about. I used to have everybody over my house just have groups over on Wednesday nights and we always do something fun and somebody said he do. You want to do a fairy spell and we were all just like water and it’s always funny because Tom always knows when things are going to get wrong. But he’s always like everybody has to make her own mistakes and you could just hear everyone go, let’s do it and Tommy goes. I wouldn’t do this if I were you guys. We all did it and then I ended up with an attachment from which he helped me get rid of. And now it’s going to be like a 30 minute comedy special shoot. I’m writing it and he’s shooting it and he always makes me laugh because I’ve always like someone, always knows before something terrible. They heard Tommy go. I wouldn’t do that if I were.

00:28:04 – 00:28:07

Abigail: The voice of reason that really gets here.

00:28:09 – 00:28:43

Karen: It’s you know that was how I learn. That’s how I know the fact of my patron. I’m getting ready to shoot a thing about knowing the feelings in your body. I know even when I talk about this stuff sometimes I know if my knees down get the chills and none of the rest of the body does, something else is listening. I’m not scared or nothing, but I know I live in a house where it’s very old and I can sort of handle this much and there’s other apartments. But I know as soon as we started talking to about that, everything is like. What are you talking about?

00:28:44 – 00:28:46

Abigail: Talking about us because we’re talking about this.

00:28:48 – 00:29:00

Karen: Feeling and I go okay. This is. This is what’s going on now. So you have to know that feeling in your body. But these entities, these fallen angels, were used to walk the earth as teachers, so it’s all there.

00:29:00 – 00:29:48

Abigail: Absolutely yeah, I believe, and the way I was taught that they’re they’re like dark teachers now, like sometimes angels, and we’ve found, like angels will turn into these demons and attach to people as part of a comic lesson that that individual needs to learn. And in learning that lesson, whatever that be worthiness, love stepping into their power. In that moment, that entity can transform back into light and be released. And that’s really a very loving, beautiful experience, and I find it really helpful, when working with these kinds of energies, to remember that these are also beings of light. Within all darkness, there is light within all light, there is darkness, and so it’s like when you see that part of it. It’s almost like having compassion, like, oh man, it’s energy struggling. Just like me, I should figure out this lesson so I can free us both.

00:29:49 – 00:29:55

Karen: Yeah, there’s some demonic theories, but I don’t want to say theories because that sounds like they’re not.

00:29:56 – 00:30:03

Abigail: Just approaches or experiences. With those approaches you now experience, I find, because that’s how I work.

00:30:04 – 00:31:58

Karen: Yes, and it’s very interesting because I get fascinated, because my obsession and this is why I work in there. So I’m always one foot in the paranormal. Never you know, I didn’t go on an investigation, then come home and we’re all done and I always am very careful about where the information is coming from. And I don’t know if you’ve read this book about John and tell where. They were the first to do enochian magic and they really were channeling the angels. And they came up with this elaborate table and the chest plate and it’s so detailed and they’re channelling information and everything is going great and then there’s a change and the information starts telling them you need to do things like swap wives, and they are like. What is this right, and I actually did broadcast with Mark Fancies. That was so interesting. Talking about the Trickster Spirit, and I do know that angels are great and they’re there for us. It always have. But I wonder if sometimes it can get tricky, or if the lesson is that we think there were monogamy or what it was. But I think you always have to. No matter who you think you’re speaking to, you have to go inside and go. Is this right, like I even wonder if the angels were going. They’re listening, let’s see if they learned to trust themselves. So tell them, and then it all kind of fell apart. So another weird analogy to this is Dorine Virtue. She had all the trocas, she trained people and stuff, but she never used protection and one day she just went all christian. This is all bad, this is all the devil’s work and I wondered if something showed up and tricked her into this sudden change.

00:31:59 – 00:33:17

Abigail: Certainly could. Yeah, I think that’s very interesting. I’m definitely one who believes in protection, number one, absolutely in channelling. The first question I always like to ask is: are you the highest being at this time? You know, and if not, it’s like I’m goin to let you go because I’ve I’ve gone, connected up with my guides, calling in the highest guide at this time and some one else showed up and started talking about these stars and this planet. I’m like, okay. Are you the highest guide for me at this time? Well, like they were malicious, they were just like floating around and just jumped in and had all the stuff to tell him like. That’s great, but that’s not what I’m doing here. So I’m going to let you go. I’m going to speak with my highest guys like you. Just, you know I just did the wrong line or the line was open. He picked it up first, I guess, but it’s like, yeah, I mean, it is big, wild world and things can change. I think what you said about the trick though. Energy is also very interesting because I worked with people who who felt like an energy was being of light and then all of a sudden became a being dark and it kind of really causes one to not trust in the light. And that can be really difficult place because it creates a sort of separation from the light, and I think you touched on it before. You know, maybe it was these angels saying: hey, they need to learn to trust themselves, and do you feel like that is what’s needed in that moment, or do you feel there’s another way to navigate this kind of energy or both?

00:33:18 – 00:33:24

Karen: I’m I’m going to repeat the question because you mean I was goin to say why it happens or when it happens.

00:33:25 – 00:33:39

Abigail: Yeah, so, like when you encounter this trixter energy, where it’s like light and then it becomes dark all of a sudden, do you feel like that’s a need for us to trust ourselves more, or what would you do in that situation?

00:33:40 – 00:34:12

Karen: I would say your answer was correct. I have never had a situation like that where I saw something kind of go between light and dark. I kind of split the two as paranormal and spiritual. The stuff usually that I’m dealing with in the paranormal is dark. It’s all dark. If it’s not the person, it’s usually not anything that’s turning into light. But I would say you have that exactly right. It would be about trusting yourself and then bringing that ultimate connection with Creator Universe back.

00:34:12 – 00:34:39

Abigail: Yeah, absolutely, I love that because it’s hard because, like when that happens and I worked with people on this, there becomes this fear of. Can I trust Universe Creator source? You know it’s like. Is light really light? Is the light gaslighting, you know, but I think when you can’t know externally go within, it’s like when you’re saying I am not, as you don’t continue, affirming who you are. Is that something that can’t really be taken from you when you have that?

00:34:39 – 00:34:55

Karen: Right, and also, you know, it’s very interesting because we were just having a conversation about. There’s a particular football player in the United States who was going back and forth in Peru and was doing it quite a few towns, and now he’s seeing a dark shadow followed him.

00:34:55 – 00:35:02

Abigail: Which you know, it’s one of those things that happens. Plant medicines are amazing, but there are risks involved and people don’t always get educated and to protect themselves.

00:35:03 – 00:36:05

Karen: I agree a 100% and now it’s so popular and this sounds terrible. But I don’t know that I’d go to a foreign country to do it and I know I probably know people that could recommend the best people. But right now and this is just me. But right now I think it’s time to be very, very careful with anything. With plant medicine, with alcohol, with all that stuff, I feel like there’s just a-level of negativity that’s a little higher than usual. So maybe it’s not the time for any of that. But usually the dark kind of hackmen aren’t really dangerous, they’re kind of watchers, they’re kind of just wanting to see what we’re doing. But he was talking about something coming up behind him and he was scared because it was the call that man. I’m goin to call it shadow person, and Tommy had the perspective that maybe that’s not the shadow person. Maybe the shadow person is literally keeping that thing off like it’s a big world and you have to be in the whole thing to know that sometimes the dark isn’t you know we save dark and light some of the darkness, the dark, do you know, wot I mean.

00:36:06 – 00:37:13

Abigail: Absolutely absolutely like I had had one experience when we were talking, but like the trickster energy where I was like I would see this beautiful kind of angel being in front of me and then all of a sudden it would get kind of evil. And this was happening for a couple of years. And then I was just doing a ton of yoga, like mostly, and yoga for self healing to heal my body. And of course I’d go in there. But I would go on all of these big spiritual journeys to heal the spiritual part and I saw that energy and I kind of was shown. My life is like this wheel and all of these different lifetimes in it. And there’s these parts where it would be like now, like dragging a computer, like just go to those parents and be like you sound, just be all-black and jagged, colored. Be like what she is going on there and I thought, scared. But then I was like spirits sat on. My guide said these are the parts not yet healed and I had done some working, got dark light, angel, and it was like this is the part of you that is also afraid. This is also the shadow part of you that you have not yet healed and it’s like this is the duality you’ve been living in. But when you heal and integrate those parts, then that duality is no longer so polarized.

00:37:14 – 00:38:54

Karen: Yes, and it’s kind of like one of the symbols in the Rider deck, because that’s my back that I do. Ter gray is the best color because it is the combining of white and black, where everything is white and black. I do call journaling and I do Kaka journeys now, which have been really hopeful. I just started that. I’m very happy with that. It’s not quite taking you as far as the other ones, but I was immediately shown. I started doing studies on the archangel because I feel like I can get too dark, like I can really get wrapped up in the dark side and go. You better start balancing that out, and I started doing research on the archangels and things started to get really light. And then there was this very clear message and the message was they showed like a pencil like this and they said: okay, so this is you, so you’re learning to come up here and communicate and archangels, but remember, you’re always expanding exponentially, so you’re going like this. So the dark down here is just as clearly seeing you as the light. And they were always like: don’t ever forget that which goes with something. Somebody sat on a podcast, which is the people that might be attacked or under possession are the ones that, like Mother Teresa, became possessed because she was like I’m all good, it’s all light, it’s all you know, and they were like: no, you’re not, you are just as dark as anybody else and we’re going to balance that out. So I always remember that, know certain people. I was reading for a woman once and she was all about. You know, I’m just prayer and love and light, and I was like you know.

00:38:54 – 00:39:11

Abigail: It’s like you can’t that’s like we can’t deny a part of ourselves. You know it’s like we are these wings of light and dark, and the dark is not necessarily evil or bad. It’s just another aspect. You know it’s like the yin and the yang. That’s just just the world of duality that we live in. This is the airplane.

00:39:12 – 00:39:28

Karen: Yes, yes, so it always is what it is, it’s not. You’re safer because you’re reading the Bible, you’re still moving up and you’re not safer because you’re just reading about Archangels, Karin. You’re you’re bringing your whole light bigger, which means everyone’s going to.

00:39:28 – 00:39:44

Abigail: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, and that’s just, you know, allowing yourself to be seen but also stand-in your power. It’s like having both of those happen. Yeah, it’s beautiful, and so tell me about the terror. How do you work with that and how do you work with people with that?

00:39:45 – 00:42:11

Karen: I have to have had a past life in too, because I think I saw three psychics when I was younger and two of them told me my last life: I was in the circus and the third one didn’t believe in past lives and he told me I should work in the circus and I really, as for Terra Teacher, this man named Jacklin, Valdez and Nino, and I went to see her once and I was like this is different than anything else or any type of reading I’ve ever gotten. And she always said you should buy a deck and learn about it. And she would show me because she was brought up with a whole family of Taro and she would show me this card means this and then when these are combined they mean this. And I was like I didn’t believe that I was psychic or intuitive, or some people don’t like it when you say psychic with terror, but I think it’s all the same. It’s just a little different way to approach it and I was like if I learn everything about these cards, I should be able to put this together, like upon them. So I became obsessed with the symbols and the colours, and this is a big word. But I might even be a little bit of a historian of the Rider weight deck because I learned so much about it while I was learning. It’s of course making your intuition and your psychic abilities better and better and better. So I would say I teach people two ways to. This is why everyone calls me in an emergency, because I can throw the cards and tell you exactly this means and it’ll be right when I do a reading. I do some of that and then some of it is just glancing and putting the story together. So it’s a little of both. I have other decks and I love other decks, but that is just it’s like my little friend. I’m making a Terro journal and to download the cards and get the exact picture is a little hard. I downloaded what I could and then on a program. I coloured them incorrect and did all things, and I felt like Pamela Colman was behind me. Going. God looks good, I think you got that color, but I think that is a great basis for anyone. But that’s how I started and what was odd was so in my cyclic stand-up show where I’m reading for people from the stage and I’m making jokes. It’s actually two forms of thinking and it’s the most fun, challenging thing I could do and a couple of other psychics we’re like: how do you do it so fast? And I think it’s because that obsession with the cards they’re a part of. So I can do it, that that was going somewhere and I forgot.

00:42:11 – 00:42:25

Abigail: I love that that’s so cool. I love that you and it’s like sounds like muscle memory. Like you, that obsession is allowed it to become a part of you and so you can be a comedian and give us like terror reading on time, which is amazing.

00:42:26 – 00:43:02

Karen: Well, what was funny was I was doing it on-stage as a comedian. I had gone to my teacher. I had called her and said: listen, do you think this is disrespecting the cards? If I do this, and she said: I think the fact that you ask the question means you’re not disrespecting ones. And I was actually doing it before. It was a business and I think about how other people might want to be like. I want to know it and have you know, but I was like: no, we’re doing it on the stage in front of people. I don’t care what they were doing it and then I was like you know, maybe this is a business and then I started as a.

00:43:02 – 00:43:08

Abigail: That’s beautiful, I love that so, and you teach the classes as well right online.

00:43:08 – 00:43:19

Karen: Yes, I have an online class that I think if you sign up for my email it’s half off or something like that, but it’s like eight hours. It’s pretty intense. I’d tell people it’s a, it’s a beginner’s class, but it’s a.

00:43:20 – 00:43:27

Abigail: Well, that’s good. That’s what you want, right. It’s like it’s detailed. You’re going to really understand it from someone who has embodied it and made an extension of the.

00:43:27 – 00:43:31

Karen: No one who loves put out all the nights and I go here are my boy.

00:43:32 – 00:43:45

Abigail: I love that. So if someone wants to come and see you on a show, I can. We can put all the showings in, but do you travel around and give these you ter stand-up shows? Where can they find you?

00:43:45 – 00:44:41

Karen: Yes, anybody can either follow me on Instagram. The best way to do it is, though, through my email list, which you go, I send out like four emails a year. I don’t do a weekly or anything like I don’t have enough to say. But if they sign up for the list, that’s the best and then my stand-up dates will come to them, because I’m getting very nervous instruments getting hacked or copied or all that stuff, and I know everybody likes the social media, but I’m thinking that could be gone in a blank for any reason. So that’s the best way. And then if I’m coming to your town and then if you want most clubs, I would say 99% of the clubs, I do the psychic stand-up show, but you can always email me if that’s all you’re interested in and say: is that straight stand-up or are you doing psychic stand-up and I’ll let them know or just come see a show. They’re fun kind of work all over the place, Jes Louis, in September I’ll be in. So wherever you are, I’m probably coming to you, just you have to.

00:44:41 – 00:44:44

Abigail: I’m going to be a stand-up show, like a stick stand-up show in to buy.

00:44:46 – 00:44:51

Karen: That one will probably just be a stand-up I hate to say this, but I don’t know.

00:44:51 – 00:44:55

Abigail: The cultural acceptance? Yeah, I would. I would be nervous about that too.

00:44:56 – 00:45:04

Karen: And they are very strict about language and content, so I’m sure you know we don’t need to find out you could be jailed.

00:45:05 – 00:45:10

Abigail: Not worth that risk, but that’s so cool that you dig, wanted to buy really like all over the world.

00:45:10 – 00:45:21

Karen: Yeah, yeah, it’s this business is such a blessing. I’ve seen everything. I’ve been to Greenland, I’ve been to all different countries in the middle-east and just wonderful.

00:45:21 – 00:45:34

Abigail: Well, obviously you’re funny, obviously you’re very talented and then and then, if people, so people can work with, you, can come to your show. They can take a terror lesson from you. You do readings as well.

00:45:34 – 00:46:02

Karen: Yeah, I do readings. You can sign up for reading on my website. I do 30 minutes, 45 an hour. I haven’t really raised my prices in a couple of years. I really get a great clientele between Standup and Taro. You know what I mean: everything life is good, so I get a great client. Tell of people’s you. I don’t know why I’m saying that, but I just I really love my people, like my friends are like I’m talking this much and I’m always like I think I like my people. I don’t.

00:46:02 – 00:46:07

Abigail: You want to change it. I respect that. Yeah, you’re a good spot and then you have a patron as well. Right.

00:46:08 – 00:46:35

Karen: Yes, now the patron is great. If people want to see kind of what I do, there’s a three dollar level where you get three days a week, you get the card of the day where I explain what the card means and I give you a little more. There’s a five dollar level where you get extra boasts of paranormal. There’s a $10 everywhere. You just get the classes. There’s one and 15 minute class every Thursday and then you can get the whole thing if you want, which is a whole bunch of it. You’ve got to see. You’ll see how much I love Ter if you sign up for.

00:46:36 – 00:46:45

Abigail: I love it, and then, if someone is like, I’m pretty sure I’ve got all this weird demon stuff going on. Do you and Tommy work with clients?

00:46:46 – 00:46:50

Karen: Send me an email. We’re having a problem. Send me an email we’ll go for.

00:46:50 – 00:47:05

Abigail: I love that, a woman of many talents. I have to go to one of our shows. I have to go to one of your sick shows and see that in action, as I think that is just such a cool combination. I don’t know anyone else that does that. And what a beautiful way to bring your unique medicine into the world. So cool!

00:47:06 – 00:47:17

Karen: Thank you very much. Yeah, we’re hoping to. I’m hoping to get it more and more on the road, but right now clubs are like: do whatever you want. Nice, it’s just yeah, it’s really different. It’s it’s nice. Yeah, I enjoy it. I’m so happy with.

00:47:17 – 00:47:26

Abigail: Do people that come like they know it’s on the stand-up when they’re calm, or are people who are like schic too like? Do people get surprised by that or what’s your reaction like?

00:47:27 – 00:48:00

Karen: Sometimes they do, sometimes I just do it. I’ll do like half an hour to stand-up and then I’ll do 20 minutes of the psychic stand-up but everything, even all my paranormal stuff or what I’m doing. It’s all palatable because if you don’t believe that I’m really psychic, you’re at least laughing, you’re having a good time. So it’s such a combination and I’ve never had anyone offended. That was christian or didn’t believe. Like I said, it really has something for everybody. So if you don’t believe or you don’t want to ask the question, you’re still going to have a great.

00:48:00 – 00:48:15

Abigail: I love that love. That’s the power of the comedian. You have laughter to like navigate around people’s spiritual beliefs or various blocks or whatever it is that would normally trigger them. But it’s like this: the comedy is a bridge to open up the world of possibility to them just.

00:48:16 – 00:48:20

Karen: Absolutely, and I’m sure, a lot of people walk out and are like I didn’t use to believe that, but.

00:48:21 – 00:48:25

Abigail: That was some weird stuff that happened. It doesn’t in line with reality of the experience.

00:48:25 – 00:48:38

Karen: And just so people know, all my readings are over the phone, so I have clients all over the world, so don’t worry about having to be in the. I think the lockdown did. What kind of everybody understands? Now you can do it right.

00:48:38 – 00:48:43

Abigail: Yeah, it’s so convenient. I love working from home. I’m literally wearing sweat pants right now and it’s so great.

00:48:44 – 00:48:46

Karen: I’m not worrying.

00:48:46 – 00:48:57

Abigail: Even better, so what is the best place to reach you? Like your website, your social love client and shows as well, but if you want to just mention it here too.

00:48:58 – 00:49:21

Karen: Sure, Karen Antoski dotcom or antoski dotcom, it’s very easy to spell. I always tell people: if you put in comedian Karin, I’m going to come up, I’m the only Polish, I guess Tusk or Paranormal care and all that stuff. But really Rantos dotcom. For years I had Karnonou and I was like: why don’t you just buy Rantos? That’s so much easier now.

00:49:21 – 00:49:37

Abigail: That’s brilliant, so nice, even unique name, love that! Well, thank you so much for being here. Is there any message you want to leave the audience with anyone who’s like? Maybe they’re curious about getting into taro or maybe they’re whoever you feel out there is the anything you want to say to them?

00:49:38 – 00:50:12

Karen: I would say, especially if someone wants to get into Ter, go online and launch a bunch of Taro readers and see if you like it, it’s not for everyone. Some people don’t like the cards, but to me they’re just absolutely fun. And if you think you’re psychic, but you’re not sure, they can be a great way to develop and give you some confidence in it, I don’t think anyone watching this broadcast would be. But don’t be afraid. I’ll you know I mean, don’t be afraid of terror. I was taught that the cards were pieces of cardboard and the magic is going on here. So don’t be afraid to buy a deck and don’t be afraid to buy your own.

00:50:12 – 00:50:25

Abigail: Of that, yeah, yeah, don’t be afraid of magic, it’s part of us right, it’s part of this world that we live in. Remembering that I love, well, thank you so much for being here and sharing all this beautiful wisdom and all that you do.

00:50:25 – 00:50:30

Karen: And thank you, Abigail. I just adore you and I can’t wait to have you back on my.

00:50:31 – 00:51:15

Abigail: Thank you. I adore you too. You’re so great. I’ll write all you beautiful beings. Thank you for listening to this episode. I hope it gave you a ton of value and inside and if you know anyone else that would benefit from this, please share it with them and your ratings and reviews are always so helpful to and if you would like, more support and more community and connection. You can check me out on instagram and facebook that you are mine body free, share live trainings and healing resources in my facebook group and instagram every week and you can find the links for that in the show notes until next time. Send you my love.

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S2E4-My Healing Journey from Chronic Illness


My Healing Journey From Chronic Illness

My Healing Journey From Chronic Illness

I share what’s been working for me in healing late stage Lyme disease and what I’ve learned throughout this intense healing journey. This episode is for anyone struggling with any kind of chronic illness, especially late stage Lyme disease.

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Join the Facebook group: Heart Space Healing for Seekers
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Schedule a free discovery call here

Full Show Transcript

00:00:09 – 00:01:09

What’s up? Beautiful humans, Abigail Moss, here i’m here to share with you guys a personal journey today, a journey that has been seven years in the making, for me almost eight, and it is one that had brought me the biggest heartache and the biggest freedom all at the same time, and this is my journey of healing, my body, not knowing what the hell was going on for most of the last seven years and just recently getting clear, and what I did with that clarity and how I worked with it to heal myself and get my life back. My journey is not all done and tied up in a beautiful bow, but I have come so so far from where I began and I’m so grateful and I know I’m going to continue on this path of healing and feeling so much better.


00:01:09 – 00:03:08

So this is for everyone out there who has or is struggling with a chronic condition, be that physical, mental, emotional or life situation that you’ve felt stuck in for a long time. I want to share this with you with the intention that it will help to inspire you to realize just how powerful you are and that the most profound, deepest medicine that exists is inside of you. It’s simply a matter of recognizing it, unlocking it, believing in it, and this is my journey of doing all of that. So I’m going to take you back to almost eight years ago now, when I went back to Peru. I’d been there two years prior to my first time experiencing Ayahuasca, the Master Plant. The plant teacher that woke me up, opened my heart, helped me to release so much pain, showed me a world of magic and aliveness that I would never be the same after and ever since I had gone two years earlier. There was nothing I wanted more than to go back. So I had gone back and this time I was staying for longer instead of a week. I was staying for two months and I would be volunteering as a photographer, capturing the moments and the magic, which was super fun for my artist’s soul and as a facilitator to support people on their healing journey, to support the guests and their experiences with the Shamans, helping people with whatever they needed in and out of ceremony. And it was amazing and beautiful and profound and way more than I was ready for or could even have expected, because I had no idea what to expect beyond magic, because that’s what I had found the first time I went there.


00:03:09 – 00:03:56

So I got there and I had posted after a few weeks I had posted a photo of my legs on facebook because they were eaten alive. I must have had over 200 bites all over my legs and I had not prepared with proper essential oils and loose fitting baggy clothes to protect my skin and I just got chewed up. And one of the women who owned the retreat said, oh, this is your jungle initiation and I thought, well, I guess that sounds like a good thing, and I had heard stories of other people saying they had different issues, different, you know, things happened to them in the jungle and that was their jungle initiation.


00:03:57 – 00:05:12

My initiation lasted the whole first of two months, where I was just being devoured by all of these insects and, I’m sure, wakened and whatever else that were eating my flesh. But it was definitely a challenging part of the experience and it did go away. After about a month, the mosquitos and the bug started attacking the new people that joined and I guess how climatized my energy had shifted. Maybe my blood flavour had shifted a combination of things, but I had become someone that belonged in the jungle for that second month because I was no longer being attacked the way that I was the first month, towards the end of my time there, my very profound, beautiful, magical time for which I will probably speak about more on other episodes. But today, when I keep it to this healing journey I’ve been on with my body. So towards the end of my time there I had gotten sick, flew fever, food poisoning type symptoms and I did recover. But when I got home I noticed my digestion.


00:05:12 – 00:05:46

It just was not what it used to be. I was more sensitive to different. Things wasn’t working as well and it just kind of got progressively worse year after year after having gotten home and with that I was getting progressively more and more tired, more and more anemic, and it just really became a struggle and I did try to find help. What the problem was, I didn’t know what help to look for. So I had worked with my family doctor. He could find nothing wrong with me.


00:05:46 – 00:06:29

I had worked with different alternative health practitioners and they didn’t know what was up, and I eventually found a functional gut health clinic online,, and they were really really good. I’ve been working with this woman for a year now. They started last year and she helped me do more thorough testing, called a map test. And there we found Hilary and and we’ve been working with diet and herbs to gradually shift these. But I was still very, very tired and the symptoms were kind of persistent and she didn’t know what the tiredness was coming from.


00:06:29 – 00:07:23

But I did have this question she’d given me for the root cause of Cibo, because CBO is symptomatic condition where bacteria kind of crawl up from the large intestine to the small intestine and hang out where they don’t belong. And that happens because there’s some sort of issue with the motility in your track, and so something has caused that to not work, be that some other infection or an injury or something else going on. And in that question there was something that asked: do you have? And I had worked with one practitioner the year prior and she had something called bio meridian scanning, that it takes a hair sample and it tests the energy in it to give a reading on different infections and sensitivities and conditions happening in the body.


00:07:23 – 00:09:06

And one of the things that it tests for is lime. Now this is not a 100% system by any means, but that practitioner had suggested I do a lime test where I send bloodwork to Germany, where they can test for it and find it because a lot of the clinics, if they’re not highly specialized, it’s only about 50% accuracy rate, so people can get a false negative diagnosis. I had originally thought I don’t want to do this. I don’t have lime. The test is really expensive, it’s like $800 and I just was really resistant to doing it at that time a year ago. But I saw that in the question and I thought you know what. Maybe I should do this and we got the test one and it came back with the results fairly quickly that we’re positive for me now. At this point I had already started feeling better. So in the past year, about five months ago, I started going to hot yoga because the fatigue was so profound and my functional gut specialist she recommended that I do some yoga and so I thought, oh my god, with what energy will I do yoga? But I did find a hot yoga studio near me and I really love hot yoga and they had a lot of classes, which are the lie down, resting, sleepy time kind of yoga where you hold a pose for a long time. It’s gentler and it goes deeper into the milpas and it goes deep into the tissues to release tension. So it’s more of a restorative practice than the intense flowty classes can be.


00:09:06 – 00:11:00

So I’ve been going to yoga and while I was going to yoga I have been doing a lot of inner healing. So I would go to this. What would become my ritual of this room? With a beautiful energy, with darkly lit candle light, music, playing, warmth, radiating and I would lie there and I would be opening up my body, releasing tension and allowing my heart to feel. I would drop into my heart, into different things happening in my body, into my spirit and from that place I use the tools that I teach my students to connect with my inner child and bring healing to her, to connect with my past lives, bring healing to them and learn from other aspects of myself in those past lives who brought healing to me and speaking with my spirit guides and my higher self, my soul, and going on these incredible visionary shamanic journeys, I would just drop into them in yoga class and I would cry and cry and cry and release and release and release all of the stuff that had been held in my body throughout the years, throughout many lifetimes. And as I did this I started feeling a little better. I started getting a little more energy until eventually went to on yoga class that I thought was another class. It was on a different day. I wasn’t normally available but I went to this class and I was excited. I was lying down before the class began and I was excited to start my cozy, relaxing ritual of the teacher, walked in and tried the lights up bright and started yelling at everybody.


00:11:00 – 00:11:51

And the way that they talk when they teach is through yelling. It turned out it was not a-class it was what is called traditional baptist yoga, which is a very set form of sequences, and they were like drills that were being yelled to us. It was very, very hard, but I did my best to keep up, which was poorly, and sweat my. But through that class and I did all these poses and I twisted my body and I did all of these things and I was thinking, oh my god, what have I signed up for? This is the worst, but the end of the class, I was lying there in savasana, the best pose, if you ask me. I just thought to myself: what the hell was that? And I heard my body reply.


00:11:51 – 00:15:01

My body said that was amazing and I thought I was not expecting that from your body. You liked that and I replied, yes, that was amazing, and so my mind had believed I wasn’t capable of it. But my body was delighted to be able to push itself like this, to sweat in the heat, to move all of the energy and what I had realized activated an internal fire, because I have been doing all of this in yoga and is one side of the and the then is the quiet, feminine, inward receptive. It is the essence of dark night, Winter Earth, whereas Yang is doing outward, fiery, active sun, summer day, and I’ve been doing all of this is sinking deeper and deeper into myself, which I needed. I needed to cry, I need to go on all of these deep inner journeys, but the fire wasn’t igniting. I wasn’t getting that energy to move into my day with clarity and with bigger, if you will, until that class, where it lit a fire inside of me, a fire, and I felt amazing. The next day I had more energy than I had in years. I felt phenomenal, and so I started doing more classes that were arter. I started doing flow yoga classes and I would sweat and sweat, but my body loved it and my spirit loved it, and something that awoke inside of me as I was doing these classes was a warrior part of myself. I would become focused and clear and I would just feel this fire burning away. What no longer serve me? As my spirit pushed through into these movements that reminded me that I am a warrior and while I was in classes I had this realization and this knowing in my mind, my body and my spirit, I can heal myself. I can heal anything because I am strong and I am powerful, I am made of energy and I know how to move energy, my thoughts direct my body and I know how to shift my thoughts. And as I was doing this, as I was stepping into my warriors self, the sense of hope and possibility and faith permeated from myself and I started getting more and more energy and feeling better and better.


00:15:01 – 00:16:54

And by this point I was already feeling so good, and so when that lime test came back positive, I was ready to see that the because the year prior was not yet in a place where I felt powerful. I was not yet in a place where I felt like a warrior. I was sad, I was overwhelmed, I was angry and getting news. At that time it would have been harder to process and I may have spent more time feeling like a victim of life, feeling like an injustice had happened to my body. But when I got this news, after having done the inner work, after having worked so hard but come so far in my health and my physical, mental, emotional health, I was ready to process that information. I had Lime and I would love to say that I stayed perfectly unwavering in that warrior state that yoga brought me to. But realistically I didn’t I processed, went to yoga that night and I did a really hard class and I sweat a whole bunch and was focused and driven and angry. But I was the warrior and I was moving through and on the drive home I would play destiny’s child. Survivor really loud, ranked high in my car because I was determined to be the warrior. I would not be a victim of this. I would not be a victim of this. I did cry on the way home to process, to move a motion through my body to acknowledge this, and then after that I began researching.


00:16:55 – 00:17:59

My husband began researching, because he loves doing that more than I do. To be honest, we were researching. Okay, what do you do? What’s next? How does treatment work? Because I have been getting so much better, but I still had issues that I was experiencing with my digestion, with my balance with neurological stuff and fatigue would be unpredictable. It was much better, but it would still come, and so I was working through this and we had found a few different options. I found a couple of clinics in the States and I discovered their pricing was between 50 and 100000 for treatment and we had found this clinic in Germany. That does hyperthermia, where you get really really hot in conjunction with antibiotics and other treatments, and it had worked really really well for some people. So I got really excited about that and I thought: okay, I’m going to sign up for this, I’m going to do this.


00:17:59 – 00:19:25

This is what’s going to heal me and as I had made that decision, it was almost as if my symptoms got three times worse because all of a sudden there was someone who could just take this away for me that I could just take this off and give it to someone else to heal for me, and that was so tantalizing and seductive. The louder the voice got that said someone can heal me, the quieter got the other voice that said I can heal myself and I was preparing to go and I was getting very stressed and very anxious as I was getting close to booking flights and booking this treatment. And we did some more research on this clinic and discovered, after digging deeper, that it didn’t work for a lot of people and there were some risks involved because for the hypothermia bodies will go into shock, so they sedate them and one person has actually had a stroke, and so we decided. You know what I don’t think this risk is necessary and I pulled back from that. I did some more researching of local treatment of what people do locally to treat this.


00:19:25 – 00:20:41

There’s a few different line specialists in my city and I was looking up treatments like hyperbaric oxygen chamber treatments there, all of the various testing to detail, all the various infections, and I was adding all the numbers up in my head. And for a typical treatment plan it looked like it was hundreds, easily thousands of dollars every week, and I have this delightfully pragmatic mind. Who said: you know that’s free, all of your tools, all of the things that you know how to do, that’s free breath work, oxygenates your body, yoga cleanses your blood, gives you energy, speaking to your body, speaking to the symptoms, connecting with your heart, feeling worthy. These are all things that are available to you, and so I thought, why don’t I try my tools too, and with that there are some different protocols that you can find online for treating line.


00:20:41 – 00:21:48

One of them is the Cowdan protocol. I believe it’s called, and there is a supplement that we ordered from Samsara herbs called Time Support, that has, I think, all of the herbs in the Coin protocol and these in a single pill, and so it makes it very easy. And so we ordered some of those, and they have actually very good reviews of people working with them, and so I was doing my own work that had already been helping. I started taking these supplements and feeling worse at first, which was actually a good sign when you’re killing off bacteria. And that’s what lime is. It’s borrelia before it, the bacteria that causes it and typically other bacterial, bacterial and viral and parasitic co infections that can be transmitted along with that bacteria when you are infected by whatever insect bit you which, by the way, can be a mosquito or flees or anything that draws blood.


00:21:48 – 00:23:22

And by the way, most people don’t notice a busy rash when they get infected anyway. I’ve been taking these supplements and I started feeling worse, and this is called a Herxheimer reaction, or hers for short, and this is when the bacteria in your body are dying off and as they die they release toxins, and so your body becomes overloaded with toxins temporarily as these bacteria are being eradicated. So I was noticing that fairly intensely for the first week. Since then I’ve increased the dosage, gradually increasing or what we call titrating it up to almost the full dose now, and I notice little to no symptoms now, which is amazing. My body is adjusted to. Oh and another thing I did was I got a son rap, so research the internet, the wonderful, delightful place of the internet, and read it. People who were having a lot of success said that Infare sons have been phenomenally helpful for them because the lime bacteria does not like high heat and it dies at 41°C so if you can be in a sane that reaches that temperature, especially an infrared sona, especially good, then it is very, very good for treatment.


00:23:22 – 00:24:32

But I didn’t want to have to drive to a sauna multiple times a week or every day and I didn’t want to have to spend thousands of dollars to get one at home. So I went on Amazon and I got this little 200 and $50 Sonora. It’s like a little sleeping bag, that plug-in and it heats up and sweat my butt off. I’d like to go in for 45 minutes because I’m intense, but you can do 15 or 30 minutes and that with my hot yoga, with my Samsara herb supplements, with which I’ll get into next the inner work, the mental, emotional, spiritual component, has been so so incredible. That voice that had gone into the back of my mind was that I had been slipping away when I was looking for all of these answers. Outside of me has come back in full force and it says you can heal yourself and ultimately I believe we are always the ones that heal ourselves. I work with many different practitioners and healers and specialists and coaches who’ve helped me phenomenally to see things.


00:24:32 – 00:26:02

I have been missing to grow much faster, to go much farther, but they are the guide, they are facilitator when who is doing the actual healing that’s happening within my mind, within my body and within my spirit, and I do want to give a lot of acknowledgement, the plants too. So all of these various herbs that are in my supplement, my Samsara supplements, there is, I believe, an energy and consciousness within every plant, within every being. This has kind of been my experience within Waska, within all things, because everything is made of energy and consciousness. I’ve spoken with the spirit of these plants, I’ve felt when they’re working in my body, I felt things shifting and I thought to ask them one day: hey, how’s it going? How is how is the job going? And they said these plants kind of collectively said phase one is going well and to which I asked great. What is phase one? And they replied: we are cleaning the blood and I thought, very cool. Thank you, keep doing what you’re doing and you know there is this intelligence within everything that we consume and the relationship we have with that which we are working with.


00:26:02 – 00:27:07

Consuming that helps too. So, as I am grateful for them and thinking you know, these plants, these supplements that are helping to heal my body, I believe that it helps to open me up to the power that they have to heal me and it sets us up for a relationship built on respect, because it’s nice, when someone comes in to do all of these things, for you to acknowledge and appreciate them. With that I have been doing a lot of inner healing work, a lot of spiritual work, and I know the power of belief. Belief can create and end wars. Belief can direct our body and mind towards living or towards dying, and I wanted to direct mind towards living. It was really time to turn the boat around into being more alive, more plugged into life through the senses of my body.


00:27:08 – 00:28:30

I wanted an example, I wanted an example of what was possible to be my role model, to help my mind believe more firmly and consistently that I can hear myself. So I giggled, heeled myself from line and I found a woman’s story. Her name is Amy Share. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that right. It’s and she talks about how she spent so many years feeling sick and then finally getting a diagnosis of Lime seven years later and then spending so many years trying to get better and not getting anywhere. And with Lyme disease it’s interesting. So if you get it early on, you can typically take a round of antibiotics and you’re usually fine. After that it’s totally eradicated. But when it’s been going on for several years, that’s where it’s called late-stage line, where it’s had more time to get into the organs and systems and nervous system of the body and create more problems, and for a lot of people they really struggle to heel from that fully and consistently. And so I found this woman who said that she had healed fully and completely from Lime 10 years ago.


00:28:30 – 00:30:30

After spending so many years trying so many treatments and spending so many thousands of dollars, she finally got to one pivotal change within her cell. That changed everything, and it was when she realized that she was worthy and deserving of healing. I know first-hand in working with myself and working with my clients that this is legit, because I’ve seen it time and time again. If we don’t believe that we are worthy or deserving of healing growth change, then the mind will sabotage it over and over again. It will cause us to play small, it will cause us to not feel motivated to take action, to do the things we know we need to do, to feel better, and it will hold us back. And it is this invisible force that can really direct the show and can really make our break someone’s journey. And when I learned this, it resonated with me and I thought: thank you, Amy, I’m going to take this wisdom. I’m going to use it to save myself years and several dollars, to skip the parts where I spend so much time going back and forth and not fully healing, and to jump right into that part where I know I am worthy and where I’d continue doing the work consistently, continued caring for myself consistently, and I’ve given my body the command that it’s time to heal and so integrated that into my own journey that I reminded myself multiple times a day: I am worthy and deserving of healing.


00:30:30 – 00:31:50

I am worthy and deserving of healing and even just knowing this, there may have been a part of me that didn’t feel that way was very free. It allowed me to recognize that belief and in that recognition pretty much dissolved in that moment, because I had already been doing a lot of work and speaking with the Lime bacteria, speaking with the symptoms, the issue, speaking with it and asking it: what is your purpose here? Why are you here when I ask it its purpose? It tells me consistently: I’m here to wake you up now. I need to give you a little background on my relationship with what I mean by waking up. So I have been a seeker most of my life, always seeking something more, always feeling like there was something just beyond the veil that I couldn’t quite grasp yet. And that seeking brought me to Iowaka, brought me to training in shamanic, chinese, medicine and hypnotherapy, medical, chicag and linguistic programming, and it brought me home to myself, to all of these incredible magical things.


00:31:50 – 00:33:43

And it also brought me to India to do a yoga teachers training, and in one of our yoga philosophy classes the teacher was speaking about enlightenment as an island and how some people are not interested in going to that island. Some people will paddle around, not really directing straight towards it, or other people will swim right for that island. And we all have our own pace and way of getting there. I believe we are all destined to just which lifetime it maybe varies for each of us. But anyway, as the teacher was telling us this, I looked to my friend and I said: I want the speedboat to that island, I want the speedboat to enlightenment, I don’t want to paddle around it, I don’t want to waste any time. I want to get straight to that island, to be careful and mindful, rather of what you ask for, because while I was envisioning this glamorous speedboat, my boat actually came in the form of a chronic disease, a chronic disease that then motivated me to instill and integrate a powerful practice of self-care of going deep within myself, regularly, of loving myself and, as I’ve been doing this work, with going to yoga, stepping back into my bar yourself, tending to and caring for myself, creating establishing and enforcing boundaries to give myself what I need to rest when I need to rest, to pull away, to step into more healing I’ve been seeing.


00:33:43 – 00:35:32

My mind has been seeing the evidence of how much I care for myself and realizing that I love myself because of how much I’ve been showing that through my actions and in realizing that I love myself. Therefore, I must be worthy of love, and that I really believe was another piece that Lime has been there to teach me to wake up, to awaken, which I have definitely been doing, especially in those first few months of nowhere was connecting with my past lives, with my soul, my spirit, my higher self, and going far further than I ever had before, in a very short period of time and learning to love myself through my actions, learning that I am worthy and deserving of that, and so I had already been going quite far in this. I had already been shifting this belief by proving it to myself, by giving myself what I need. Yet I was motivated with pain, with fatigue, but I refused to let that beat me, because I am a fighter. So I thought for myself. I went to yoga, even when I didn’t want to move my body. I dropped into my heart and I let myself feel my emotions and I let what no longer was serving me be released. I let myself receive support from different healers and specialists.


00:35:32 – 00:36:15

I found, and my husband helped find different tools and herbs and ways to treat this that have already worked for so many people. And then reading amy’s story and what shifted it for her was knowing she was worthy and deserving of healing. It was like the final clarity. It was the fruition of all of this work I’d already been doing, affirming that this is powerful stuff. This will heal you, this is healing you and it has been, and it is.


00:36:16 – 00:37:42

I have consistently weigh more energy than I’ve had in years, and supplements the Samsara herbs have been a wonderful help with that and the inferred sana rap has been an incredible help with that. The yoga has been amazing and the love and care I’ve been giving to myself has been amazing. I feel so alive and so connected to my body and so full of energy. I still have some work to do on my digestion, my gut, and there’s still some more layers to release with that. But I know it will continue to get better because I found and addressed the root of all of that stuff: this deeper infection that was here to cause me to love myself, to cause me to get still and be with my spirit and be with my body and be with my, and I am truly grateful for that. Well, it’s been a frequent hard journey. It’s so amazing to see how far I’ve come from not being able to get up off the couch multiple days a week to now growing my business, serving more clients in a bigger way than I ever have before and having more energy than, honestly, my mind knows what to do with.


00:37:42 – 00:38:49

Yesterday I felt this tremendous surge of energy in my body and my mind thought: oh my goodness, what am I going to focus this? Use it most efficiently, and so now I’m training my mind to block out time. Let’s listen to the intuition. What are we being guided to do next? What is it that we need to do? What are we avoiding? Because my mind hasn’t been used to having so so much of a resource of energy to work with before, and so usually I would be able to pick. Maybe one thing I’d do that day, but now I can do so much more and build so much more momentum. So it is like a very different world. If you are someone who has been struggling with a chronic issue, know that you can heal. Healing is always available. Our body is made with the encoding of its highest health, its highest vitality, and we can heal.


00:38:49 – 00:39:46

We can detach from what we collect in our environment, in our life, growing up in our ancestry and the womb in past lives, all of the stuff it builds up and it piles on and it weighs us down. But as we release that, as we shift the energy, we release the emotions and bring love to the pain. Things can shift really quickly and it’s been amazing to witness that in myself, because this has been an invitation for me to integrate the tool that I teach others in an even deeper way and, working with energy, mind and spirit. I’ve been giving myself energy treatments as well, and that’s been amazing. There’s just so many layers that have gone into this and in every way I’ve learned how to integrate what I know and it’s been beautiful and it really helped my mind to see. Look.


00:39:46 – 00:41:17

This works, because there is a part of my practical, rational mind that used to doubt these shamanic magical tools, these shamanic practices that I do, even though they would be so incredible and people would get these amazing results so quickly and come back and say: look this this and this has shifted, I would think, because my mind didn’t understand that it could be that simple, but now that I’ve done it for myself, I can see the process of truly shifting the belief that I can heal myself the moment it shifts, it becomes simple. There’s been a lot of layers getting to that point, but it shifts in just a moment when I remember that I have the capacity to heal myself, that I’m worthy and deserving of that, and that’s been a beautiful thing to witness and to realize it’s been an incredible journey to be on, albeit challenging. I’m really truly grateful to be on this side of it now, where I can continue on this mission, that I am here to serve and support the healing and awakening of life on earth and help others step into their medicine and their magic and realize just how powerful they are to heal themselves too. Thank you for listening. I hope you’ve got some takeaways from this and if you’ve been struggling with a chronic health condition, know that you can heal.


00:41:17 – 00:42:23

You absolutely can, and if you have been struggling with lime or think you might have it, then I encourage you to get tested. There’s some different places in the states in Germany that are more accurate and for most people who become healers it is through having to heal themselves. There is a couple of terms: there’s one called the wounded healer and there’s one called shaman sickness, which essentially means very similar things. It means the wounded healer is the one who has become wounded, but they, they go on a journey of self healing and in this process, discover how healing works, learn how to navigate these challenges that arise and in doing so are then able to heal themselves and help others to heal to and becoming wounded or sick. It’s not about any kind of failing, it’s not about being broken.


00:42:23 – 00:44:12

There’s nothing flawed in you or your body. I see it as an invitation to learn something about yourself, an invitation to come back to yourself, because at some point for me anyway, I need to heel when I am disconnected to an aspect of myself. Be that my body, be that the warrior within me, be that the part of me that knows I can heal myself, that knows who I am, a soul, as an authentic being here to share unique things that no one else can share with this world. We’ve become disconnected from that in any way. Then. That’s where illness can come in, and part of releasing the illness is about reconnecting with every aspect of ourselves and stepping into our power or wholeness. And from that place we can heal anything. All right. Thanks for listening! Guys actually wanted to come back, since it’s been a few weeks since I first recorded this episode with a short update on how I’m doing. My energy is way more stable than it has been in the past eight years now and I’m still healing and it will take a bit of time. And that’s all right, typically one to two years recovery for people with late-stage line. But I’m noticing a significant improvement in the consistency and stability of my energy. I no longer have what I used to call down days where I just would not be able to function, and that would happen multiple times a week. It doesn’t happen at all anymore, which is amazing, and I’m getting stronger every day and listening to my body and loving my sonora.


00:44:12 – 00:45:29

I’m really enjoying walking my dog in the sunshine right now and taking it one step at a time, even though part of me is very excited to be doing all of the things in the external physical world. I’m also pacing myself and just being gentle with my body, and if you guys are wanting support and feeling worthy and enough within yourself for your own journey, that healing, that growth, abundance, purpose, then I invite you to come and join my Heart Space facebook group. You can find the link and the show notes and in the under the guides section, under healing resources, you can request a free guided hypnosis meditation that is so so powerful and walks you through, stepping into and embracing your inherent enoughness and worthiness exactly as you are. I love this recording and I often listen to it myself when I’m enjoying my son sessions. So if you’d like to check that out, you can find the link in the show notes and you can also reach me on Instagram. You are mine body free, all right, sending you my love until next time.

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S2E3-Stephanie Sarazin: Navigating Ambiguous Grief

Stephanie Sarazin Ambiguous Grief writer


Stephanie Sarazin: Navigating Ambiguous Grief

Stephanie Sarazin: Navigating Ambiguous Grief

Stephanie Sarazin is a writer, researcher, and experiential expert in ambiguous grief. In Season 2, Episode 3, Stephanie shares how she navigated ambiguous grief during the sudden and unexpected ending of her marriage. 

We share some personal stories of love and loss, explore how she guides others in navigating ambiguous grief, and unpack her new book: Soulbroken: A Guidebook For Your Journey Through Ambiguous Grief

Connect with Stephanie
Book: Soulbroken: A Guidebook For Your Journey Through Ambiguous Grief
LinkedIn: stephaniesarazin
Instagram: @stephing_thru

Connect with Abigail
Join the Facebook group: Heart Space Healing for Spiritual Seekers
Learn about the Spiritual Healing Mentorship
Instagram @yourmindbodyfree
TikTok @yourmindbodyfree

Are you subscribed? If not, you could be missing out on some extra bonuses and show tools. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, or Spotify.  

Do you love the show? If so, I’d love it if you left me a review on iTunes and shared it with those who you know would benefit from it. Simply click here and select “Listen on Apple Podcasts , scroll down to reviews, then select “Write a Review”. Thank you so much ❤︎

Looking for more support?
Schedule a free discovery call here
Join the Sanctuary Membership Community


Full Show Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:06:50

Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the mind-body free broadcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I’m a shaman. I am here to awaken the healer. Do not simply teach you, but to bring you home to your own divinity, nature and spirit, so that you may remember the depth of your own being, power and purpose and embody your original medicine. In all that you do, this work is not for the faint of heart but for the driven seeker. We’ll not quit until they find what calls them. This is for those who are ready to step into their power, even though it fucking terrifies them. This is for the medicine, women, the light workers and the wearied souls who’ve lived to countless lifetime. This is a path to mend your deepest of wounds, to remember the innocence of your nature. This is a way of embodiment, integrity and awakening. It is a portal back to your soul and a bridge between worlds. This is where we reclaim our magic, our birthright and our true being, a magic that was hidden for centuries by religion, madness and fear. It is a power that stirs in our wombs and a knowing whispered by our ancestors. It is a song sung by the universe, it is our birthright, our divinity and our. We are here to remember it, embody it and return it to the world from which it was hidden. This is a season to reclaim your magic. All right, so before we get started with the show today, I just wanted to make a quick announcement. So my medicine within mentorship program is now open for registration. This is a four-month healing mentorship where we are going to go really deep together and you’re going to learn how to heal yourself. You’re going to learn how to become free of familial ancestor and past life drama, how to become free of energetic attachments, of other people’s projections, of societal conditioning, of all of these things that cause pain in the mind-body and spirit, that cause us to forget who we actually are, that caused us to play small and not go after what we want and create abundance and fulfilment in our life. The mentorship is a place to find yourself, to heal, to finally feel at home in your mind-body and spirit and find your peace. This is a connected, loving and sole nourishing community. The people in these classes become friends, lifelong friends and bond in such beautiful ways because we go through such a deep transformation together and there is such a safe and sacred space that is held by me, by my spirit, guides by a beautiful energy, and it often surprises me the depth of healing and transformation and unexpected gifts that come from each class. So if you are feeling called to something more, to show up in your power, to step into what you are meant to be doing in your life, to find your peace and heel and let go the past, let go of what’s been weighing on your heart and on your body and mind than the mentorship might be for you, you can learn more at mind-body free dot com slash mentorship. You can schedule a free discovery call with me and see if this is right for you. So without further ado I i’m really excited for you guys to get a chance to hear Stephanie Sarazin. She helps people heal ambiguous grief, the kind of grief where someone didn’t just die, which you know, society gets that everyone’s kind and gives gifts and everything but grief where it’s if you’re going through a divorce or you know, any kind of end to a relationship. This is the kind of grief that she’s really great at navigating in her own life. She’s done a lot of this in her work herself and she helps others with it. So we go deep. We talk about a lot of really personal stories. It is very beautiful and at times emotional and I can’t wait to let you listen. So here we go. All right, I am here today with the lovely Stephanie Sarazen. We were just chatting and I was like we have to record now, because I love this conversation than I want everyone else to get to be part of it. So Stephanie is a writer, researcher, an experiential expert in ambiguous grief. Her work began with her own experience of midlife drama, which worked an ambitious journey spiritually and around the world to understand, name and heal the grief she found within her. Her efforts revealed a first of its kind definition for ambiguous grief, or by grief, is onset by the loss of a loved one who is still living and wherein the experience of hope presents the stage of the graving process. I love that. Stephanie’s work brings new resources to reframe disruptive, activating events as a gateway to discovering your highest self. I’ve definitely found that to be the case. In turn, champing ambiguous grief is a nuance, natural and navigable. Stephani is the founder of Rise Uprooted, an online resource center for those navigating ambiguous grief, a grief educator and Ted Surer in her community. She is a graduate of Michigan State University and earned a master of public policy from the University of Chicago. In addition to being the proud mom of three, she is an avid reader, recreational runner and aspiring camper firing camper. I love them. She lives in North Carolina, where she is training to trick Mount Everest Base Camp. Amazing. Her book, Soul broken, one word, a guide for your journey through ambiguous Grief, is published by Balance, an imprint of Grand Central Publishing, and was released in October 2022. It is currently available for order at Barnes Noble, Amazon and your favourite independent bookseller, and we’ll get into her book and unpack all of this in a minute here. But first I want to say: welcome, Stephanie. Thank you so much for being here.


00:06:50 – 00:06:58

Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for having me, Abigail. It’s so nice to chat with you and thank you for the important work you’re doing and bringing these conversations to us all.


00:06:59 – 00:07:27

Speaker 2: Thank you, yeah, thank you for the important work you’re doing in ambiguous grief. I have to say like i’ve someone, I am someone who felt a lot of grief in my life and I think for me it’s a lot of past life stuff, but when I go into like my shadows, it’s always grief that I find there. But I’ve also found that to be a portal to healing and really discovering who I am. So I love. Could you tell me a little bit about how you got into this work and what does that look like for you?


00:07:29 – 00:11:09

Speaker 1: Yes, and first I have to say, you know you’ve just used my language, which so I just feel so connected already. Grief is a portal for us, if we allow it to be, and you know it is a portal to our greatest and highest selves. If we’re willing to do the work with, you know that isn’t anything I could have understood, much less articulated before I had the experience myself, and it was for me six years ago, over six years ago, my marriage of over 20 years, almost 20 years sorry, ended abruptly and it was devastating for me. It was a marriage I loved and was something that just shifted me cataclysmically. It was just something that shifted the floor from under me and I did not know what was in my future. I was questioning my past and it was just a distorted, funhouse experience kind of thing where nothing was as it seemed in my mind, and I was really struggling to reconcile my own understanding of my life and to find myself in that position in my early forties and with three children who also never did see trouble or issue or problem in the home. It was just a devastating shock to all of us and in that grief, in that that time of just darkness and confusion, I really started. I started to look for others who could talk to me about a similar experience and I couldn’t find anybody. Abigail, it was. You know. Yes, there there’s plenty about divorce. You know you can find resources in any bookstore, online or you know about divorce. You can find resources about of a loved one, but to a physical death. But I was looking for somebody to help me understand how to grieve. I felt like a widow, as I imagined a widow would feel, but I didn’t have any societal norms to enact, didn’t have support or validation from those in my community, not because they’re awful people. You know just when you’re grieving the loss of a loved one who’s still living, you know others don’t know what to do either. So my process, this grieving process, was ambiguous for me and I couldn’t find anybody to talk about it. So I started writing just as a way to help myself, process and understand and find some peace, and in doing that I had a couple of articles published online and then I started hearing from others saying: yes, me too. This is what happened to me and I haven’t told anybody and I’m grieving and I and, as these you know, communications were coming in. I came to understand that you know we don’t have the tools. We don’t do grief really great in our society, as it is a grief that we know is inevitable. Right, you know, we’re we’re all going to die our physical death and our loved ones will die a physical death. And if we outlive them, then we will be grieving the loss of them at some point and.


00:10:55 – 00:10:56

Speaker 2: No.


00:11:10 – 00:13:30

Speaker 1: You know, we have kind of a basic structure for how to, what, to do when that happens right. We’ve got a lot of room for growth there, in my opinion, but so if we don’t do that inevitable grief really well, then it makes sense that we wouldn’t do other kind of nuance griefs well either, and so, not having this grieving process and not knowing how to grieve, I found that so many people like me were isolating. If shame and embarrassment are a part of their loss, then they’re likely isolating and grieving alone. And so I started to research formally what happens in this process and what activates this grieving process. And partnered with a terrific therapist who had treated me for therapy and we were no longer working together in that capacity, and I had shared with her kind of a hypothesis I had about how this, what’s happening here and and we’ve decided to partner together to investigate more thoroughly, and we found that you know a discovery of a secret, a divorce, incarceration, indoctrination to gang or cult dementia, alzheimer’s addiction. These are some of the activating events that occur that can trigger the ambiguous grief experience. Where gosh, that’s you know, that’s my mom who has cognitive decline, you know dementia doesn’t know my name, but she’s and I’m grieving the mother she once was and the relationship she once had, but she’s no longer. We are no longer in relationship as we once were, and so how do we acknowledge our own experience as grief? And how can others support us through that? And you know what helps to soothe us, what helps to heal, and that became my work from there, really trying to uncover, understand and help others.


00:13:31 – 00:15:08

Speaker 2: That’s beautiful. Thank you for doing this work and I’ve been nodding my head this whole time you’re talking. I couldn’t agree more. Yeah, and I feel like grief is something that I don’t think we really understand how to navigate and I think it’s because it can be such a deep emotion. I think it’s natural that we tend to protect ourselves from that and society. We kind of. We don’t want to go there a lot of the time, but it is something that if we don’t feel it, it’s not going to go anywhere and it’s going to hang out on our body and possibly cause disease and illness and depression. But I love that you speak to. Grieving is not just when somebody dies, it’s any kind of loss and I’ve been through big changes in my identity and I’ve had to take time to grieve who was to grieve, not being that person anymore, and that enables me to then move forward. I used to do wedding photography as an example and I’ve seen it. I think it was a muslim wedding and this really beautiful ceremony at the end, where the bride is saying good-bye to all of her family because she’s going to go and live with her husband. And that’s like a right of passage and there’s just so many tears and it’s so emotional and so intense. But it’s beautiful because they’re all feeling this together and it’s this right of passage that frees them all, to them move into this next chapter. So much lighter because they let themselves go there and they did it as community, which I think is such a beautiful example. You mentioned that was something that you were needing. It makes such a big difference when we have that.


00:15:09 – 00:19:29

Speaker 1: It does, and grief needs to be witnessed. When we can witness and stand and witness of one another’s grief, that griever is validated. That person is validated not in not in a way that or is happy for their loss, but their grief is validated because it is love and we don’t grieve for hearts of ourselves that we are glad we outgrew. We don’t grieve for arborist when they move to another store right. We don’t grieve things that aren’t full of love. We grieve what we love, and so when we’re saying good by to parts of ourselves and acknowledging and aware that we are saying goodbye to ourselves as a, as a woman and stepping into our role as a woman and a wife, it’s okay to feel that and they can go together. Grief can be held with love and in my opinion should be, and if we could teach that and share that, I think that would help it be more acceptable or people feel more accepting of it when it comes to visit them. But you know I love that you brought up this, this wedding experience, because that’s a ritual that is so important and we’ve lost our rituals in so many ways, or we replaced our rituals. You know in ways that might not be our best, you know, helping us to our greatest and higher selves, and instead of reflecting in solitude, we’re turning on streaming service, binging right and that ritual replacing the reflection and solitude ritual. You know maybe not in our our best and greatest and highest good in the long run. But those rituals, like weddings and funerals, are so important and you know something I realized as I was trying to understand this. My grieving experience was that we are so good in our culture, were so good about celebrating, beginning and for for any of your listeners, you know, just take a look at social media feeds today and think about it in your awareness over the coming weeks and and take note, we are quick to celebrate our beginnings, whether it’s an engagement or a gender reveal or a new business, you know, with big scissors in the bow, toasts and birthdays and baby showers, and those are all beautiful, wonderful celebrations. Yes, let’s celebrate that, of course, and we ritualize it right. We have ceremonies and rituals within those ceremonies that we invite our loved ones to be part of and to witness, to celebrate with us. And how amazing because we’re energizing one another in such a positive, vibrational way. And yet we all know that miscarriages and divorce and businesses fail and go under. That baby we were so excited about, is now struggling with addiction and has run away. And we don’t post about that right. We don’t post about our endings the way that we post about our beginnings and there’s a lot of reasons. I’m sure why and it’s probably highly individual as to why people don’t feel comfortable doing that or why we don’t do it or we don’t want to be perceived or we don’t wan to be talked about or for all of those reasons. But I think the more that we can find rituals and ceremonies that help our grief, our ending, find witnesses, you know who can just hold that space for us and understand their grief. You know they don’t have have the same experience, but just to understand that we’re grieving and that that can really help. That would just gosh, that would just be great, wouldn’t it? It would help us all move forward and maybe be more open to understanding grief differently, maybe even welcoming.


00:19:30 – 00:20:04

Speaker 2: Yet when I think about society, where that is normal, I get tears like one well up in my eyes, because that feels so healing for all of us. And I feel like that’s so what we need, because whether we know it or not, we’re all grieving. Our ecosystem is changing massively. Our world is changing massively. We have changed so much that, whether we’ve processed it or not, I truly believe that we are all in a grieving process and if we could come together in this time of change, imagine how powerful that would be. Be so powerful.


00:20:05 – 00:20:24

Speaker 1: Oh, I feel I mean, as you say, that i’m just tingling and it just because, yes, yes, you’re yes, that’s it, and yet it also feels like such a completely parallel universe that we’re not. I mean we’re not living in it, that’s for sure, but yet, to your point, you know it’s almost on a cellular level.


00:20:25 – 00:20:25

Speaker 2: Yes.


00:20:26 – 00:21:56

Speaker 1: Our humanity or connectedness is feeling this, you know, and the pandemic helped to really bring it into focus in all of the ways that we are grieving. People were grieving the loss of their identity when the pandemic happened and it was work from home, or people were losing their positions when a part of our identity is no longer as it once was. You know that too can trigger ambiguous grief. It’s not that the person you know the relationship doesn’t necessarily have to die or suffer horrible break, it could also be a part of our identity. That is changing. And to your point, you know when you said that part of me was no longer, and what I’ve learned is that losing a job that we’ve loved, that helped us before we’re facing with an identity or our role as a parent. When children launch and and leave the nest, parents can experience this ambiguous grieving process, because that happens, and that is kind of a gal. Right is raising your child to adulthood and and then being able to be self-supporting adult right. But yet if our identity is tied so inextricably to our role as a mother, and now we have no one to mother in the way we once did, it’s a grieving process and many don’t know that there’s a name for it or a way to work through.


00:21:57 – 00:22:24

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly a way to work through it. How? How do we navigate these things? I feel like we’re just we’re not taught that. I’ve spoken with many women who are who are going through that, like my kid isn’t college, they’re not calling every day the way that I’d love for them to. I don’t know what are they going to come back like? What’s going to happen? It’s like this is normal. You know, I’m pretty sure this is normal, but I can’t tell them how to navigate that. I haven’t been through, but I know so many have. Wouldn’t it be great if we talked about this kind of thing more?


00:22:25 – 00:26:19

Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too, and you know something that helped me was once I understood how healing ceremony can be, and this came because I travelled to Costa Rica and sat in Iasca ceremonies and and found healing on many levels, but in kind of coming back and integrating, I understood how important the ceremony itself was to me and how that was something missing from my ending. And so, in lieu of a funeral, you know, had my beloved died a physical death, I would have called people immediately and notified. I would have held. I would have started the funeral planning. You know all of the things that we would do, but I did none of that. I didn’t know what to do. I was, I was feeling shame and embarrassment. I didn’t notify my family for three months and never had the public witnessing right. So coming back from from Costrica, I decided to hold my own ceremony and I call this Abigail. I know it’s kind of cheeky, but I call it a funeral. It is a funeral without death in the physical form, but my my relationship died, my marriage died, I no longer had a husband, I was no longer a wife, that part of my identity was gone and it had always been so crystal clear and the future was secure and clear in that part of my identity. And then suddenly it wasn’t and so I invited only two witnesses. My 22 dear friends who were more like family and who knew my marriage, had witnessed it up close for all the years and were first to my side the news of the divorce and and it was beautiful and it was healing and selected music. I chose the location. It costs nothing. Anybody can create their own funeral and really all you need is an intention and a witness. And the witness part is really important because it does so much for your heart and soul to have that grief and that love witnessed. And at the very end of my ceremony, as we were kind of getting up to go and this was just a lake lakeside nearby, you knowe were getting up to go and I received them as a widow might receive a line of people offering their condolences and each of them hugged me and spoke kindly. They spoke so kindly about my loss and to be seen, is such a gift for another person to not try to solve your problem, not try to say what a jerk that person was, who hurt you or who did whatever behavior. You know whether it’s a spouse or a child or an estrangement of any kind. We often go to kind of bashing that person as a way to show that we’re a supporter right of our, our loved one who’s been hurt, and that isn’t helpful. It really isn’t helpful in any form, and so you know, to to have the ceremony and, at the very end, to be able to receive their love was just a transformational healing point in my experience, and I encourage others to consider it for themselves too, if they struggling with letting go or if they’re struggling with a loss that has an ambiguous grieving process.


00:26:20 – 00:26:35

Speaker 2: That’s beautiful, love that there’s a lot of things I love about that. One is that you gave yourself the permission to create a ceremony. I feel like in the world where we’re needing more of them, like we just need to give ourselves permission to do one. That feels I mean.


00:26:35 – 00:26:50

Speaker 1: Body created the tradition or the the ceremony of a birthday candle and a cake and the song, all the originals that we know were created at point by somebody. So why don’t we have agency to do that? Get on it!


00:26:51 – 00:26:59

Speaker 2: It literally everything is made up. We too can make stuff up.


00:27:00 – 00:27:12

Speaker 1: Everything is made up and you two can create absolutely. Don’t tell us that that should be like adulating 11, right made!


00:27:09 – 00:27:12

Speaker 2: It made me.


00:27:13 – 00:27:15

Speaker 1: This is official, but somebody may be.


00:27:15 – 00:28:08

Speaker 2: I love that and I love that you speak to the importance of the witness. I found that too, like there is so much power in having a witness and I’ve found that sometimes I am my own witness. But when there is another witness there that is so beautiful and it’s so validating and so connecting, like that’s such a place of intimacy, like those are good friends that you have who are willing to be there and, like you said, not you know, bach this person or try to pull you out of the grief and into anger instead just to be there with you and to witness you there like it takes courage for you to go to that place in front of another and it takes courage for them to witness you in that place, because that is real authenticity inside that vulnerability and that’s a place that very few of us go. Very often it’s a beautiful thing to get to share with somebody.


00:28:09 – 00:29:14

Speaker 1: I think so too, and and what’s another surprise from that experience for me, realizing that this was healing for my witnesses too. You know, if this is, if this is somebody who you’re inviting, who knew your relationship, that you’re grieving, they might be grieving too. They probably are. You know, and when we go to a funeral, you know for a physical death, we might not be the closest person to the individual who has passed on, but we might have had a relationship with them too and are grieving right. And so a ceremony and ritual isn’t just for the closest person, it’s for it’s for everybody. And and even if we go as a sign of solidarity or because we think it’s good etiquette or well, I need to show up because that’s my neighbour, even though I didn’t know their mother kind of thing. It teaches us how to grieve right and and and shows us by model what grieving looks like for others.


00:29:15 – 00:30:06

Speaker 2: Exactly, we’re always teaching each other. You know how to do things. That’s okay, and you spoke too, touched on the feeling of shame with that, and our printing ground says shame is something we all have, and the less we talk about it, the more of it we have. And it’s like these ceremonies and speaking about it, it gives it gives a place for this experience, it gives it a place where it belongs and it makes it okay because we are all going through this kind of stuff. But when we don’t talk about it, there’s this feeling of have I done something wrong? It is this my fault, there’s nowhere for this, there’s no war for me to feel this. There’s no way this belongs in society or in my life, and that’s where the shame comes in. That’s where it gets stuck, but it’s like it feels like you’re giving it a place where it belongs and it can be felt and it can move the way it needs to move and be honored.


00:30:05 – 00:31:48

Speaker 1: Honora, absolutely, and and what is to be what is to feel shameful about love? You know if you’re grieving, you know I don’t say this. I want to say this, but I don’t say this as I greet people in their grief. Don’t say this right away, but well done, well done, because that means you opened your heart to love and you let it in and you love, and it is equal and opposite. It’s Newton’s third third law right. It is the equal and opposite reaction. We grieve proportionate to our love, and love doesn’t leave us, and neither does grief. But we learn to carry it differently when we can talk about it and burned Brown has taught me so much as well about about shame and embarrassment, and something she says too, as you’ve probably heard, is that shame cannot survive with empathy and if we don’t address it right, shame will grow and fester and it will eventually come out sideways somehow. But if we douse that shame with empathy, then it stops growing and to your point, ceremony gives us the opportunity to give empathy to the person feeling shame so that they’re they’re not in judgment, that they are seen. And again, if we’re scrolling through our streaming services and not sitting in other forms of ritual, how do we do that? How do we show up for others with with that real, true, authentic empathy?


00:31:49 – 00:33:33

Speaker 2: Absolutely, it’s beautiful and I feel like this is the kind of thing that really has the power to heal the world. You know it’s it’s such a broad thing to say, but I feel like I can, so many of us. I think the whole world kind of needs. This right now reminds me. My dad passed away two years ago and getting to witness. I didn’t see him come into the world, obviously, but the little circle of his soul leaving this world. Just how much that cracked my heart open, and I would have tried lots and lots with that. It was just such a huge feeling of love and it felt like it was just breaking open of my heart so that it could be a witness and so that it could hold the greater depth of love that I had for this being, and it’s such a profound, incredible, huge thing, the grief is. It feels like the iceberg of the love that’s underneath it and it’s just it’s just it’s just going right into the heart and I feel like that’s the place where I like to live. Try to live, but we get so much armouring and so many things to protect ourselves from feeling this. What you mention in the beginning, it’s a portal and we let ourselves dive into that portal. I really believe that at the other end of it, what we find is so much love and that’s what needs to come through, I think, to bring healing to the grief, into the pain. And if I don’t stay in my heart in those places, if I get into my head, scuse me into my ego. That’s where, like the, you know, the anger, the thoughts every just feels like. But that’s not what I want to be. But when I get into my heart, that’s where i’m like: okay, this is, this, is this place that I meant to be right now.


00:33:33 – 00:35:26

Speaker 1: And it’s not easy for me anyway to quickly pull myself out of my head and into my heart. But I have gotten much better at being aware that I’m there right. So I think, even just having getting to a point where you build awareness, to say, oh gosh, oh gosh, I’m I’m thinking about this. I’m not feeling this right and that’s not where I want to be. You know, as it relates to grief, and ego, and grief is the invoice that we get from love right. It is time to pay up right and and and when I started thinking about it this way I realized the you’re a loving relationship with somebody, your dad. Thank you for sharing about your dad and that they pass on or the relationship breaks and there’s an ambiguous screening process. Whatever the case is, wherever that loss occurs, only one of us pays it right. It’s like one of us gets stuck with the cab you know you’ve throughout the course of your relationship, you’ve been building and building and building the relationship in millions of moments together. Right and then when that relationship is no longer as it once was in your case, it’s it’s a physical passing on. So you’re you’ve got the tab to pay, Abigail and and it’s very rare that both people pass at the same time. You know we’re in the same finite space and and they don’t really have to grieve it. But it feels super unfair and like you’re kind of getting stiffed here. But that’s in my head right and when I can drop into my heart, it’s such an honor. It’s really such an honor to to pay this invoice because it’s the other side of love and it’s a beautiful.


00:35:27 – 00:35:53

Speaker 2: It is beautiful and I feel like you mentioned earlier the importance of having a witness. I feel like when it’s like we get, when we’re paying the tab, we’re kind of. We’re being the witness for them, whether it’s if it’s death, they’re soul leaving this world or if it’s the end of a relationship. We’re holding space and being a witness for that and I know that some day, some one I’m going to, some one else be paying my tab.


00:35:55 – 00:36:18

Speaker 1: I’ll get to pay that tabor. We’re lucky if we’re lucky, because that means somebody loved us totally. What else do we want? Right, and you know it’s if we can kind of shift the conversation from, you know, getting stuck with the tab to it’s my honor, my honor to grieve this love right, then I think we can shift our.


00:36:19 – 00:37:47

Speaker 2: Absolutely, it’s beautiful and I feel like that. Healing can happen any time we choose to acknowledge it, you know, to to bring awareness and to bring ceremony to these, shifting to this loss. Like I had, my mom had a still stillborn baby before I was born and my family never spoke of it. There was never a funeral. I don’t know what happened with the ashes, and so I came into this world with a family where there was this pain that I didn’t understand because it was never spoken about, acknowledged they did. My mom did know how to heal that pain. She didn’t have support for it and it wasn’t until a couple of years ago I was talking with my therapist and it came up and she had said: oh, the family system is off because I have an older sister like you, are the third daughter. You had a sister who came before you and even as I say, that I get emotional because to me it’s such a soul, visual body feeling to acknowledge that like oh you’re right, I’m not the second daughter, I am the third daughter. She came before me and like just speaking about that, just just so much healing to me, to like the energy of my family as I feel I belong in it and that healing can happen any time, even if they weren’t ready to deal with it. Then I can feel that in me now, and it’s such a powerful thing.


00:37:47 – 00:37:50

Speaker 1: Well, what a gift for your sister!


00:37:50 – 00:38:03

Speaker 2: You know her name is Deirdre and just acknowledging her and like, connected with her spirit and just feels like she was witnessed. You know she was here, she, she still has a place in this family. What a gift!


00:38:04 – 00:38:29

Speaker 1: Oh, thank you for sharing that that’s so beautiful. God bless our, our mothers and the generations before who didn’t have the language or the understanding or the support, or just any of it, to to feel anything more than they did, which was so little right. So thank you for bringing bringing language to that and keeping dry here.


00:38:31 – 00:38:43

Speaker 2: Thank you for being a witness to that. This is just. Thank you for doing this work. You know this is still powerful, just such beautiful work. It’s such hard work, the language of love. Real.


00:38:43 – 00:40:29

Speaker 1: Thank you so appreciate that. Truly, yeah, and there are so many different modalities for healing and, to your point, so many ways we can find it. And what worked for me, what’s working for me, what didn’t work for me doesn’t doesn’t isn’t the blueprint for anybody else right. We each have to find our own way and I think we find it in tiny increments, not always giant steps. So that can happen too, with gifts of just downloads and knowing and certain understandings which I’ve been able to experience. But you know, for the large part, letting go and and healing is work, that it just goes on in perpetuity right, and that’s okay and we can find it in little ways. And I think even if we are willing to be willing to heal, then we are healing right. We can. We can walk, just a baby, step forward on that path by saying you know what I’m I’m pretty mad right now. I don’t want to deal with this right now or I don’t know. I don’t want to talk about it now, but I’m i’m willing to later, you know, even to have that dialogue with yourself, a good place to start. So for anybody listening it’s not. It’s not a herculean effort that you decide to undergo and then is done in a linear way. You know in three to six months time, by this and that formula right, which is what I started out looking for. I’m laughing. I’m laughing with others, not at others who might be nodding along right, and it’s that’s not how it’s done, and thank goodness it’s not how it’s done, because it’s different for all of us. It’s unique to each of us and it’s our, our own work here to do nobody else about.


00:40:29 – 00:40:49

Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for saying that it does look different for all of us and it isn’t linear, and I don’t think there’s any wrong way to grieve. But I think, like you said, the most important thing is like the willingness to keep you know, to keep going when, however, that looks at the moment, if it’s not right now, okay, but agreeing to do that when when you’re ready.


00:40:49 – 00:42:25

Speaker 1: And when you really want, you know when you get to a place where you’re desperate to feel better, whether you’re you’re depressed and you don’t know why or you’re grieving loss, and you do know why. You know you’re just sick of feeling down and angry or hurt, or just follow your intuition. Follow that part of you that tells you what soothes your soul, what you need get, and we can’t do that if we’re just inundated with noise and noise pollution right. So just being able to get quiet in meditation or prayer, get quiet and deep breathing, even for a minute, to tune into what does soothe us, whether it’s a cup of tea, you know something hot bath we can do for ourselves in our own home or plant medicine in the jungle, whatever it is that is tapping you that is calling you, trust yourself to tune in and intrust yourself, to get curious about it. And I think that we know our souls know what we need for healing, but again we get. We override it with you know, our intellect and what we know, and it’s all made up right. We’re here, somebody made up that. This is how it goes and this is what you need and this is appropriate and not appropriate and frowned on and not frowned on. So get quiet and see what you need and trust it and you’ll find your your own unique blueprint to healing.


00:42:27 – 00:43:01

Speaker 2: That’s beautiful. There’s a song they said: I’d rather feel pain than nothing at all, and that’s like getting into the heart might not feel good for a while it might hurt. But when you get into that space then you also open up to more joy, more connection, more sense of self, more sense of beauty in the world around you and, like I don’t know you mentioned, you went and did, was in the jungle. That was a huge part of my healing path: to get into the heart, get into the spirit so it can look so many different ways. But absolutely tell me about. Tell me about your book.


00:43:02 – 00:47:12

Speaker 1: So it is and so so broken was, you know, the result of my healing experience, and it is the book, the guide book I was looking for all those years ago when I was feeling so lost and alone and not knowing what to do in lieu of physical death and yet feeling so much grief. I certainly share some of my story, but I share the stories. Each chapter shares, shares the story of another individual who I’ve worked with, who’s experienced ambiguous grief from a different activating event, whether it’s estrangement. You know a daughter who no longer will see her father and he’s not quite sure why, in his grief, experienced others, and you know, aging parents are talked about as well incarceration. You know I spoke to several women who were experiencing the incarceration of their husbands, one of whom not the one in the book, who’s amazing and and has a terrific way forward, but another woman who said her husband had been incarcerated for three years and she had not told anyone she was just buying time and the pandemic really helped kind of move. Keep keep her cover right because of the shame and embarrassment. And so each chapter is a different persons story and each chapter includes different modalities for healing. You know that I learned or I’ve learned from others, and you know my hope is that the book can, you know, just be a touchstone for others who do feel so lost and alone and open their their eyes, different things. I couldn’t even pronounce Iasca when first learned about Costa Rica and knew that I had to go to this place. And if we can stay open to all things, all modalities, we we’ll find a way through our healing. And for me, on the very first night of ceremony with the medicine, with the plant, medicine had an incredible experience. I would have called it awful before that because there was so much purging, but it was really the plant medicine worked just as as we know she does, and I cried. I wailed through most of the ceremony, which lasts for hours, right and towards the end, toward the very end. I had a life changing experience and I do not use that term lightly at all. I had a life changing experience with an incredible embrace from God source source, energy, spirit, the universe. However, whoever that is to you, and a very clear, distinct, crisp voice that said to me from me: you are not heart broken, you are soul broken. Come back tomorrow and I did, and you know, in the book I define soul broken. You know much like being heartbroken, but to be soul broken is to be filled with anguish. That is onset by the loss of our love and the loss of ourselves, our relationship, and it’s often void of validation. And when we are in that space of being soul broken, we are disconnected from ourselves and from one another and from the universe, spirit source, energy, God, and in order to plug-in and connect again, we we have to, we have to heal, and the good news is that it’s possible, it’s possible, and it starts with just being willing to be being willing.


00:47:13 – 00:47:46

Speaker 2: Oh, that’s so beautiful. I thank you for saying, too, that it’s possible. I feel like that’s one of the stories that comes into the mind. When you’re really in that deep place. Where you’re really going into those depths is like you’re going to be here forever. This is no solution, you’re never going. Other people might be able to heal, but not you, and that’s one of the one of those. When you can break through that, believe exactly when you open your mind. Free your mind from that. Then all the possibilities open to you, because of course it’s possible, everything is possible.


00:47:46 – 00:47:56

Speaker 1: Point number two: they don’t tell us in adult right is just your thoughts. It doesn’t mean they’re true right.


00:48:00 – 00:48:23

Speaker 2: That’s made up, that’s true, not necessarily right, right, that’s so free. I love the work of Byron Katie, where she will, she challenged, teaches you how to challenge your beliefs, called the work her system, a man. That’s another way of just portal going into the soul. So, yeah, I found that really helpful when I’m in those thoughts that are not.


00:48:23 – 00:48:25

Speaker 1: And it’s not easy, but it’s worth.


00:48:26 – 00:49:08

Speaker 2: Exactly what you call it: the work and all of the stuff. It’s not easy, but this is the. This is the pressure, it’s the fire that forges us. This is what causes our soul to come back into wholeness. Is the evolution of our soul in shamanic, worked like soul broken, resonate with that? Because it is when we go through these dramas. It’s like fracturing of the soul and bringing it back together. It means coming out of numbness and into feeling, and that it’s probably pretty uncomfortable for a while. But the other side of that is the reunion with yourself, with Spirit is God, and that is really what I believe. Being here is all about it for me anyway.


00:49:09 – 00:49:16

Speaker 1: Yes, and you know, I learned this from you, Abigail, I heard you say it: it isn’t pretty, but it’s beautiful.


00:49:17 – 00:49:25

Speaker 2: I like that. I don’t member saying that, but I like that. Thank you. I’m goin t agree with that.


00:49:25 – 00:49:32

Speaker 1: Very wise, very wise of you, it isn’t pretty. Others may need to look away. We may need to look away.


00:49:26 – 00:49:26

Speaker 2: Very.


00:49:33 – 00:49:50

Speaker 1: But the net of it is a beautiful unfolding and reunion with self, and if that is what we are all here to do and to learn, got to be willing to be willing to start and and you will be yeah.


00:49:51 – 00:49:55

Speaker 2: Where can people find you stuff?


00:49:55 – 00:51:13

Speaker 1: I have a website, my name: stephanie, sarazin, dotcom. I’m a certified grief educator and grief recovery specialist, so I work one on one with individuals going through grief. I don’t like to call myself a coach. I’m more of a guide helping people and small groups, facilitating small groups to better understand. If you’re not somebody going through grief but you’re somebody who works with. A lot of people, can work with organizations to introduce grief in a way that maybe hasn’t been introduced before and just start talking, getting people talking about grief in different, in a different language, in a different light. So we’re not so afraid of it really and also i’m on social media, not a ton but Ingram. I’m staffing underscore through, and my book is so broken, a guidebook to your journey through ambiguous grief and for anybody who’s listening I hope it finds you and you find it when needed and the title of the book. Here, as is so broken, I just want to point out the path that you see behind the artwork. I think the artist did just such a beautiful job and really speaking the language and understanding that it is a journey and one well worth taking. So I do hope the book find.


00:51:14 – 00:51:42

Speaker 2: Thank you for doing this work and I feel like I think we kind of touched on it in the conversation that addressing grief differently is a systemic thing within our whole society, and I love that you’re working with people individually as well, as you know, coming into organizations to shift our perspective and relationship with it there too. So thank you for doing this work. I’m going to put all the links in the show notes as well and she’s been such a treat. I feel I talk to you all day, I just love your energy and I love what you do and your message.


00:51:43 – 00:51:57

Speaker 1: Thank you. Keep keep recording, keep interviewing. Your guests are terrific and and always get me thinking. So i’m honoured and delighted to be sitting on the other side of the microphone with you today. Abigale. Thank you so much.


00:51:58 – 00:53:29

Speaker 2: We thank you for listening. I hope you enjoy that episode with as much as I did. I love the work that she’s doing, an ambiguous grief, and you can check out the links in the show notes if you’d like to work with her or check out her book sounds really powerful. And one more announcement in case you haven’t heard. I have a free facebook group where I’m sharing a ton of education and value all around, coming home to your mind-body and spirit and becoming a healer to yourself. So if you’d like to be a part of the magic, you can check out the link in the show notes to join the Heart Space Facebook group for spiritual seekers. Thank you so much for listening. If you love this episode, please share it with anyone you think would benefit from it. To review it really helps to get these messages out there. And if I don’t talk with you before, the holidays, have an amazing Honoka Christmas, all of the beautiful tide celebrations I always find this time of year so very special and we’re moving into our winter solstice, the darkest day of the year and the time for being deep within ourselves and planting new seeds for what’s to come. So what’s to come for you? I wonder, sending you my love until next.

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S2E2- How I’ve been getting my energy back


How I’ve been getting my energy back

How I've been getting my energy back

If you’ve been struggling with any kind of chronic condition in your heart, mind or body, this episode is for you. Even though chronic conditions can at times leave you feeling hopeless, I truly believe that you can heal anything. And the inner work that I’ve been doing has been proving that. Here I share what’s been working for me to heal the chronic fatigue I’ve been dealing with for years and the unexpected gifts that have come from this work.

Connect with Abigail:
Join the Facebook group: Heart Space Healing for Spiritual Seekers
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Full Show Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:01:17

If you are looking to grow and transform and connect with a beautiful heart led community also on a path of healing and transformation, then I’m inviting you to my Heart space facebook group. It is a place for spiritual seekers to find healing, to find answers within themselves and connect with other heart lead seekers in this group will be sharing daily tips on drama and form practices for self healing behind the scenes. Video lessons on working with your inner child, regulating your nervous system, accessing your intuition and using your powerful mind to work for you and not against you is the place to collaborate your resources and also learn from other active members who are heart led spiritual seekers. This is where I will be teaching you high level information about my medicine within method that I’ve used to come home to myself and that I regularly guide my clients home to their authentic selves with. There’s going to be a ton of value in this group over the coming days, weeks and months and years. So don’t miss out. Go to the link in the show notes and check out the Heart space healing for Spiritual Seekers facebook group. It is totally free to join and there’s going to be so much value shared in there.

00:01:20 – 00:01:42

Hello and welcome to the mind-body for podcast. I am your host, Abigail, of I’m a shaman. I am here to awaken the healers, to not simply teach you but to bring you home to your own divinity, nature and spirit, so that you may remember the depths of your own being, power and purpose, and embody your original medicine in all that you do. This work is not for the faint of heart, but for the driven seeker. We’ll not quit until they find what calls them. This is for those who are ready to step into their power, even though a fucking terrifies them. This is for the medicine, women, the light workers and the weary souls who live countless lifetimes. This is a path to mend, your deepest of los, to remember the innocence of your nature. This is a way of embodiment, integrity and awakening. It is a portal back to your soul and a bridge between worlds. This is where we reclaim our magic, our birthright and our true being, a magic that was hidden for centuries by religion, madness and fear. It is a power that stirs in our woods and knowing, whispered by our ancestors. It is a song sung by the universe, it is our birthright, our divinity and our day. We are here to remember it, embody it and return to the world from which it was hidden. Welcome this season to reclaim your magic.

00:03:39 – 00:04:29

So I want to share in this episode a little bit of about the journey that I’ve been going through lately. I’ve been going through a really intense season of my lifelong path to healing, and I say lifelong because I believe that it is a continuous journey. We are constantly in a state of evolution and moving towards our truest and freest expression of ourselves, and I want to acknowledge that that it’s not really a one and one thing. You don’t really go to one, experience, one healing session and then you’re good forever. It’s layered and being an infinite, being many of us being old souls who experienced many lifetimes, many heartaches and hardships.

00:04:29 – 00:05:28

There’s a lot to unpack and release and transform. So it is a journey, and I’m in it for the long hall, because I couldn’t imagine anything else. I couldn’t imagine being stagnant and not evolving and moving towards peace and freedom and wholeness and happiness and all those things that ultimately live inside each of us, that are always available to us, but are past traumas and limiting beliefs and unhealthy patterns and coping mechanisms that we create from that pull us away from the peace that is a part of our nature, and so the journey that I’m on and that I support others in, is breaking free of those things that stop us from being our true divine selves, so that we can step deeper into awakening into awareness, into peace and freedom and show up in the way that we’re meant to really share our gifts with the world.

00:05:29 – 00:06:10

So lately I’ve been going through a process of deeper embodiment in the work that I share with others, in coming more deeply into my body and going deeper in the inner work. Now my husband would tell you that I do more inner work than anybody he knows, and that’s probably true, but there are ways that my mind, which is trying to protect me, this is what our mind does, protects us from pain and discomfort, will shut down and compartmentalized, will unconsciously compartmentalized and put up walls against our own issues to protect us from discomfort and pain.

00:06:10 – 00:07:04

But the problem with that is we don’t get to grow. It holds us back, so I’ve been going deeper into removing those barriers, becoming aware of them and removing them and getting more deeply connected with my body, with my own natural way of being, with my divinity, with what feels harmonious and whole and empowered to me, and part of what i’ve been doing lately is reconnecting with grief. I’ve been getting a lot of messages from the universe and my mind’s been picking up. One of these messages of you need to process grief and sadness is something that throughout my whole life, if I had a tendency to dip into any dark place, it would be the sadness that I felt the most, and so I know that there’s grief there that I’m yet to process, and so last night I dipped into it a little bit.

00:07:04 – 00:09:05

I took a little bit of cannabis is fully legal all throughout Canada. Fortunately, and sometimes that really just helps me get into my body and break through those mental barrier. But I know how to navigate the medicine. So I’m not condoning one way or the other, but anyway, with the support of Canibus, we’re able to go into feeling in my body, into feeling this deep sense of emotional pain. And then I felt like I just dipped into my heart’s centre and from that space I just touched it for a moment, this profound, intense grief and as I touched it my body was trembling. My body was trying to. I was a little bit of a nervous system override where it was a lot. It was very intense and as I was feeling it, I was getting these images, this knowing of places it was coming from. So it was a combination of familiar and ancestral grief, past lifetime grief, things that happened in other lifetimes, and something that I became consciously aware of was environmental grief or eco grief, and I feel like this is one that we are a situation environmentally, that we are all in together, and the level at which we acknowledge and processes grief is dependent on each of us and our readiness to go there, because it is such a big one. But whether or not our minds allows us in there or we choose to consciously break through the mental barriers set up to protect us, our heart is feeling it and so if we don’t allow ourselves to process that grief or any grief for that matter, it weighs on the heart, it weighs on the body and then it can create mental and physical illness and disease.

00:09:05 – 00:10:34

So I know it’s really important to feel the stuff and to process the stuff. So as I was feeling it, I was reminded of something I had heard about grief support group, an ego grief support group, and I thought this is what I need. I don’t want to process this alone. I don’t feel like I meant to, and so I did some searching and I found the Good grief network dot org, and they have these programs and and the tense system of processing grief for our own well being and so that we can then be more effective in changing our habits and taking action to support a shift for a more sustainable way of living. Because if we are so overwhelmed with grief, if our mind is protecting us from the intensity of that feeling, we’re not going to think about it, we’re not going to process it, we’re not going to look at it, it’s going to get locked away in a black box and it’s going to be the thing that our mind doesn’t let us go to and we can’t really get much done in that way. So in order to be effective and helpful with the climate crisis, I know that I need to first process more of my grief. I feel around that and I want to share from the good grief network. There are 10 steps to processing and dealing with the situation that we’re in now.

00:10:34 – 00:12:35

I feel like for me anyway, these steps really speak to the depth of where we are at and the power and intensity of processing that. So this is the 10 steps, not too much, unlike the 10 step alcoholic program where there’s 10 steps to dealing with things. So this is the 10 steps from the good grief network. On processing ego grief step one: accept the severity of the predicament and it’s a simple statement, but it holds a lot of power and it speaks to a really powerful acknowledgment. I feel that has the capability to incredibly shift energy and the way that we are responding as human beings to what’s happening in these times. To acknowledge I am part of the problem and solutions to this I feel like I can feel triggering. I want to say: well, this is industry’s fault. You know this is government’s fault, people empowered to make the changes, but the fact of the matter is they’re not, and so it’s going to be, I believe, each individual’s journey of awakening and then coming together to create the change that’s needed and to demand the change that’s needed in the world. So it’s a lot more empowering, even though it’s scarier and harder to do step, to acknowledge that I am both part of the problem and the solution. It’s hard, but that is true ownership, that is leadership, that is responsibility, that’s that’s growing up and put it in any more simple terms. Step three: practice: being with uncertainty.

00:12:35 – 00:13:31

It’s interesting. This is actually something that I sat with a yoga class the other night. We’ve received news that our dog has emerging lymphoma, which is kind of lymphatic cancer, and I’m going to be working with him through energy work and diet and herbs help him heal. But of course it was a grieving process to learn that and it was really difficult day when we got that news and I was in yoga class and one of my guides showed up. And while I was in class I often go in these visionary shamanic journeys. Once once I hit the mat, because I’m doing in yoga, which is very much slow, gentle movement, lying down, opening up the body, breaking through the dramas like it held in the body. So there I was in yoga class, with this darkly lit room, it’s heated room, there’s music playing.

00:13:31 – 00:14:08

I’m going inward, i’m feeling myself in outer space and this guide shows up and wrapped us both in this bubble of gold light within that space and he said to me: can you get comfortable with uncertainty? And when he asked me that I got this image of falling like was falling through that golden bubble of light down through space, down to the abyss, the depth of darkness, and I felt this panic energy arising in this feeling of saying no, I need to hold on, I need to make things happen.

00:14:08 – 00:15:38

If I don’t hold on, everything will fall apart and into ruin and I’ll be surrounded by darkness. And he said to me: you need to have faith. And in that moment the energy shifted and I had this realization that when I am in fear, when, when I am in fear, with a space of uncertainty, I am not in the place of having faith. And this is faith in anything. It could be faith if you believe in God or the universe or spirit or divinity, or just faith in each moment. Faith in yourself. They said it’s going to be okay, it was just the energy of faith and I didn’t need to have any belief in one thing or any story. I just called in the energy of faith and as I called in that energy of faith, I felt this light coming in, I felt Nature holding me, I felt held and I felt safe and I felt like I can let go. I don’t need to hold on to everything because I’m being held because there is more than just me that are keeping things moving, that are keeping this world together. Thank God, it’s too much for any one individual shoulders. So that was very healing for me and it showed me that I can sit with uncertainty.

00:15:38 – 00:16:41

And when I have faith, there is no need for fear just being in the moment, being in the moment being with the energy of faith within the space of uncertainty, because everything within life is uncertain. I don’t believe we live in a deterministic reality whatsoever. We have free will. There is so much happening beyond our awareness, beyond our scope, beyond our control. So trying to control it, it’s just going to create so much suffering for ourselves. So practice being with uncertainty. And for me that also means not having an agenda, not needing anything to be one outcome in order to be happy or okay, except that it’s bigger than me. It’s beyond all of us, my dog’s health. What’s happening in the environment? We can’t be attached to the outcome, but we can do our best to help. That’s all we can do that and the inner work which enables us to do our best to help.

00:16:41 – 00:17:47

All right step four, honor my mortality and the mortality of all. That’s a big one. Can you feel the power of that one? Honor my mortality and the mortality of all. What? What kind of world would we live in if we were all doing that? Yeah, we’re here for a while, for a period of time, it’s not for forever. All things shall pass. This too shall pass. Honor that we all have mortality. So let’s make our time here as beautiful as can be. And you know, as a showman, I know, through my experience of existence and through supporting others and through mediumship, that we don’t and when the body dies, when our spirit leaves, the body or spirit is still energy and consciousness that cannot be created or destroyed.

00:17:47 – 00:18:54

That is a change of state. So we do move on to the next place, you know, which can be varied for each of us. Hopefully we move into the light, unless needing mediumship to do that. But honouring the mortality of this lifetime in this body. This is a part of life for all of us and we cannot argue with the greater laws of nature and rhythms of life that allows us the experience here to come in and swim in this ocean of life and then take our leave. What an amazing, beautiful, profound thing to do. Step five, inner work. Well, yeah, in percentage, it is the inner work that transforms our lives and transforms our impact in the world. Everything that holds us back is inside of us.

00:18:54 – 00:20:14

The mind will look to project, to think that the answers are outside of us. That is the mind, the egos habit, but they are not. They are always inside and if you are struggling with some, with motivation or confidence or self-worth or self-love or any of those that is going to hold you back, because that is, those feelings inside are going to form the narrative through which you see yourself and the world in which you. And if you want to change that world, you need to change the narrative and there’s no way around it but doing the inner work. And it is not easy. It’s fucking hard, but that is the only way to transform your life and to step in to who you are truly meant to be and the work you are truly meant to do. And it’s also fucking beautiful because as you work through and release the social conditioning, the familiar ancestral and past life drama you in shamanism it’s called sole retrieval. Where you get a part of yourself back and re connect it with the whole of who you are, and it’s like the feeling of a part of your soul.

00:20:14 – 00:21:19

Returning to you is like nothing else. It is the most beautiful heart expanding experience that you can have and I’ve been through it many a time and i’m sure I will go through it more. It is a continuous journey of coming back into reunion with the infinity that is your being. It’s pretty awesome step six: develop awareness of brain patterns and perception. So this is very important, because how I mentioned the ego likes to protect us from pain, and it is the mind’s job to keep you alive, and that is it. It is not here to necessarily help you evolve, and it is certainly not here to make you happy. It is our each of our own responsibility to become the watchers of our own mind and to become aware of the habits and patterns that the mind forms to protect itself. And I’m going into that a little bit more, I think actually.

00:21:20 – 00:22:41

So I’ve really been enjoying this book lately called potent Leadership by Ruby Freman, and in it she speaks to the ID, the ego and the superego from Sigmund Froid from his theory of these three components of the mind, and she breaks down the ego to the part of the mind that is constantly working to protect itself, often through any means necessary, and it is the part of us that feels offensive, that has defense mechanisms that are there to protect you from anything that is unpleasant, and it’s not that the ego is bad. We need the ego. The ego creates an identity, a sense of self and separation from you and another. So you know, to put a glass of water up to your mouth and not somebody else. We can’t abolish the ego, but it needs to be balanced, can’t we can, but it’s not great. We don’t want to live from the ego. We don’t want to allow the ego to run the show, because that’s putting us in this extreme version of defensiveness, really a lack of growth, because the ego is protecting you from anything uncomfortable and of course you have to get uncomfortable to grow.

00:22:41 – 00:24:04

That’s just part of transformations. Here are the steps that the ego takes to protect us from anything that is unpleasant. Number one is repression. Your ego pushes unwonted thoughts out of your conscious mind. Two is denial. Your ego blocks unwonted, upsetting, undesired and overwhelming experiences and events causing you to not see, not believe, not acknowledge and perhaps even refuse to accept what’s happening. Does that sound familiar with the environmental crisis? Number three is projection as an attempt to fix your problems. Your ego attributes your unacceptable thoughts, feelings and motives to another person, and this is something that you know. We go into a lot with my clients and part of my inner work. I work with the work of Byron Katie, and she has created an incredibly powerful system, what she calls the work for breaking down projections and realizing the patterns of the mind, these unhealthy patterns of the mind to project our thoughts and feelings and motives on to someone else. And so the work, if you’re wondering, you go to the work, dotcom or check out, buying Katy on Youtube or on her podcast.

00:24:04 – 00:24:39

She is amazing and the work is powerful. All right, the next pattern, the next defense mechanism of the ego, is displacement. Your ego will have you satisfy an impulse via a substitute person or object in a socially unacceptable way, for example releasing the anger that you feel towards yourself on your partner instead. So we’re basically displacing the pain that we feel somewhere else, and I think this could also be something that forms, you know, addictions as we know it.

00:24:39 – 00:25:36

So instead of facing the pain, I’m going to distract myself with a kind of substance or shopping or sex, any destructive behavior, habit or substance that allows us to feel a little bit better in the moment. Next one is regression. Your ego will lead you to move backward in your development to cope with stress or overwhelming situations. So acting like an 11 year-old or your 11 year-old self, and this is something that happens often, for example, in romantic relationships. So with your partner or spouse, we will often revert back to our inner child when we get triggered and our couple therapy has said that we get married so that we can trigger each other because that is the inner child wanting to heal. So we will find partners that push those buttons for us because each time the button gets pushed that is an opportunity for healing.

00:25:36 – 00:26:37

So it is not uncommon. You know when you say when you ask your partner, can you do this or that and you instantly get the snapback. Like what did that come from? Like? Well, that was the inner child who it’s pushing back and fighting, because in that moment you reminded them of their over controlling dad or their alcoholic mother. So it’s never about you in that moment. That’s that’s someone reverting back to their wounded in herself. The next pattern of the mind is rationalization. Your ego attempts to justify a mistake, problem or undesired feeling with seemingly logical reasons or explanations. Put your hand up. If you’ve done that, my hand is: we’ve all been there. We’ve all done that, something that I love as a way to bypass, that is, getting into the body, because the body does not rationalize. The body is a 100% authentic with the experience that it is feeling, with the emotions that are felt, with what it likes and what it doesn’t like.

00:26:37 – 00:27:58

And something that I do with my clients is teaching them how to get back into their body and listen to their body. And it’s a practice because we have to retrain ourselves from looking for the answers outside of us and other people on Google, on other, casts, on anything that is outside of us. The answers are always going to be inside of you and your powers of discernment, of knowing what is right for you and what’s not what is true, what is false? That is going to be in your body. So to get past the rationalization of the mind, we get into the body. That’s the tool that I love: to buy past that and to really rise above that, because the mind is going to try to justify anything that it feels in agenda towards. So I live in Alberta in Canada, which is a very oil and gas driven industry in this province. So there are a lot of people who don’t believe in climate change because their bills are paid through the oil and gas industries. So the mind will try to rationalize why we need oil and gas, why there are no other ways, why green alternatives are bad. Because behind that there is fear, like if we don’t do this, then what is there to do? Of course there’s we know that the largest growing industry for jobs is alternative energy.

00:27:58 – 00:28:34

So it’s just education and that part. All right. Reaction formation, your ego will lead you to express yourself or behave in ways that are opposite of your true feelings, for example, attempting to control everything because you actually feel insecure. So your ego will lead you to express yourself or behave in ways that are opposite of your true feelings. So how many times, how many of you have done this where you’ve betrayed what actually felt right, because you’ve felt that you needed to do something else.

00:28:34 – 00:29:21

So whether that is doing so much for others and not taking care of yourself or that is saying yes, when you really mean no, or trying to control everything because it doesn’t feel safe because of some kind of insecurity, so is another one that I’ve been through, and I think if you look for long enough, you’ll find that you’ve been through too, as we’ve all been through this. These are the patterns of the mind. This is not any condemnation, this is a process of illumination, of becoming aware of the way that our minds work so that we can then rise above them, and there is no need for any guilt or shame or blame. With that we are all going through it together. All right. So the next pattern of the mind, the last one here, is sublimation.

00:29:21 – 00:30:53

So like displacement. Your ego will have you satisfy an impulse, a substitute person or object, but in a socially acceptable way, for example channelling your frustration into your workouts. So this would be an example of, because it’s a socially acceptable way, socially acceptable addition. So working out it’s seen as a good thing, but it can be a way to avoid feeling pain. You know, yoga is. I need it in my life, I need it for my own healing and well being, but people can also use it. Any one of us could also use it as a way to numb by just pushing and pushing and pushing. So it is any form, what I would call socially acceptable addition. So those are the eight forms of defensiveness that the eagle will put up in order to protect you from anything unpleasant and, of course, in order to grow and change, we have to become aware of and break through these patterns, these defense mechanisms, so that we can then up into our authentic nature, our power, our integrity, our medicine, and share that with the world, and the world needs that right now could need it more. So, moving back now to the 10 steps of dealing with eco grief, we just went over step six: develop awareness of brain patterns and perception. Moving in now to step seven, which is practiced.

00:30:53 – 00:33:06

Gratitude, witness beauty and create connections, and I see this as a very necessary yang to the in the in the dark. It is the inward it is, it is doing the shadow work, the yang is the light, it is the outward, it is filling back up with light, and this is essential for restoration, because you can burn out from doing too much inner work. It can’t be all shadow work, shadow work, shadow work. The best of us will inevitably burn out from too much of that. We need to have balance in our lives. So practising gratitude, witnessing beauty and creating connections are all things that are going to lift us back up and bring us into a state of harmony and peace and appreciation, and that is so deeply nourishing for your mind, your body and your spirit. So I love Steven and I think if we all did more of this, we’d be in a wonderful place, and it is an essential yang to then. We need to do the shadow work. We need to face our own demons so they don’t run our lives any more. But after you do that, appreciate in the beauty and the gratitude and the connectedness with nature, with those whom you feel lifted up when you’re around them. That is the stuff that is going to make it all worthwhile and fill you back up so that you then have the capacity and the stamina to do the lifelong healing journey, and that’s what makes it beautiful. All right. Step eight, take breaks and rest. That is continuation of the young. To the end. We need to restore ourselves. We can’t push ourselves too far. We can’t go into that place of burnout because then we’re not effective. We don’t feel good in ourselves. You deserve to be happy and it is happy people. It is people who are nourished who are able to create massive change in this world, for for the better, to make this world a better place, step nine, show up.

00:33:06 – 00:34:39

So when we do steps one through eight, it enables us to show up when we face our darkness, when we let the light in, when we give it time to rest and integrate into our being, then we have the strength, then we have the strength of being to show up for ourselves number one, and for others, and for the environment or for whoever. Whatever I feel you feel you need to show up for now when you do these other steps. This is what enables you the integrity and the strength, the accountability to be there for yourself and others, and step 10 reinvest into meaningful efforts. So take action. So from there, when we do the work on ourselves and it begins within us, it has to begin within us. This cannot be an ego driven. I need to be significant, I need to change. The world is the only way I’ll be happy like that’s coming from a broken place and when we come from that energy we’re not being the change we want to see in the world and it’s not going to come from the strength of being an integrity that is needed in order to create the kind of changes that the world needs right now. So we really have to do this work within ourselves to embody our true being, so that we can show up and then reinvest into meaningful efforts and help each other. That’s what we’re meant to do. We’re not meant to work alone.

00:34:39 – 00:36:38

We are social species, we are meant to support each other, and there is no one in this world who does everything alone. And even if you are recluse away from other, human nature is there, with you supporting you. The air we breathe is given to us by the trees, breathing as well. Everything is working together, so the more that we can integrate that connectedness and community, the more that we can lift and support each other up. I send you my love: may you have grace and this journey may break through the walls that your mind puts up to protect you so that you can grow and transform into the depth of your true being and know that you don’t have to do it alone. Community. I truly have found to be an essential ingredient, a very, very powerful ingredient to healing the heart, and I have a completely free of charge to join heart Space Facebook group for spiritual seekers. This is where I go alive every Wednesday night and I share behind the scenes information on what is working for me and my clients using the medicine within method, a method that I created, that’s roadmap home to your authentic self, where you learn how to heal and free yourself of society, conditioning that steered you away from who you actually are, of the ancestral, familial and passive dramas that, behind the scenes, govern how you think, feel and act. This is embodied somatic healing. This is working with the subconscious, with the mind, with the spirit. So it is powerful, deep work and you get to be a part of this heart led community totally free of charge. Just go to the show notes and click on Heart Space Facebook group for spiritual seekers, and I love to have you in there until next time, my friends sending you my love.

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26- Announcing Season 2: Reclaim Your Magic

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Season 2: Reclaim Your Magic

Welcome to Season 2: Reclaim Your Magic! After much inner work, season 2 celebrates a new clarity and expansion into how I’m here to serve you. Join me in a frequency that is all about remembering the depth of who you truly are.

Connect with Abigail:
Join the Facebook group: Heart Space Healing for Spiritual Seekers
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Full Show Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:00:30

Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I’m a shaman. I’m here to awaken the healers to not simply teach you, but to bring you home to your own divinity, nature and spirit, so that you may remember the depths of your own being, power and purpose, and embody your original medicine in all that you do.

00:00:31 – 00:00:46

This work is not for the faint of heart, but for the driven seeker will not quit until they find what calls them. This is for those who are ready to step into their power, even though it fucking terrifies them.

00:00:47 – 00:01:31

This is for the medicine women, the lightworkers and the weary souls who’ve lived countless lifetimes. This is a path to mend your deepest of wounds, to remember the innocence of your nature. This is a way of embodiment, integrity and awakening. It is a portal back to your soul and a bridge between worlds. This is where we reclaim our magic, our birthright, and our true being. A magic that was hidden for centuries by religion, madness and fear.

00:01:32 – 00:02:05

It is a power that stirs in our wombs. And a knowing whispered by our ancestors is a song sung by the universe. It is our birthright, our divinity and our being. We are here to remember it. Embody it. To return it to the world from which it was hidden. Welcome. This is season two. Reclaim your Magic.

00:02:11 – 00:03:14

Welcome. Welcome. This is the first episode of season two, and I wanted to create a new season to. Capture a new essence. Reclaim Your Magic is about exactly that. I’m going to be focusing on helping healers and light workers and coaches, highly sensitive people, empaths, everyone who feels a calling to something more. And here to hold the frequency with you. I’m here to be a witness of your divinity. I’m here to stand in my integrity and my authenticity with you. And I’m here to do it imperfectly. To continue showing up. But to come back again and again because. It is my purpose and my calling. And I’m here to stand for yours.

00:03:15 – 00:04:01

I’m here to stand for Mother Earth and all her inhabitants. Because when each of us wakes up to our own true divinity and our true nature and our purpose. We’re helping not just ourselves, but all of the lives we touch. And that is everyone here. All that we do creates a ripple that moves out into the world and to the collective consciousness and to the energetic field. And those ripples affect our thoughts and our feelings and our actions. And it’s felt by Mother Earth and all her inhabitants. So we’re all in it together. And I’m in it with you.

00:04:03 – 00:04:40

In this episode, I’m going to be sharing a bit about what is inspired me for this new season. And some of the journey that I’ve been going through, my inner journey of transformation. And a lot of it has been catalyzed by physical health issues. And this is not uncommon for growth to be activated through the portal of suffering. And it’s not that we need suffering to grow as a belief that if you have, I highly encourage letting go of.

00:04:41 – 00:05:49

But it is been how it’s often done, because otherwise we get distracted and we get caught up in the dogma, in the popular memes, in the things that we’re told to strive for. But when something is painful or feels wrong, that causes us to dig deeper, to go into those uncomfortable or dark places. And from those places alkalis that pain into strength and. Acts as a deeper depth of ourselves. So for me, I’ve been dealing with health issues in my body for the last few years, and as I work through them, I’ve been doing a lot of physical healing, emotional and spiritual healing. And they are all connected. You can’t have one that doesn’t affect the other. Your physical body is inside of your emotional body, which is inside of your spiritual body. They are all interconnected.

00:05:51 – 00:06:54

So you address one, the other stuff’s going to come up to. And as I’ve been working on the physical healing. I’ve reached plateaus many times, and each time it was because I needed to unwind an emotional, energetic, not a past karma or belief and release that from my body, my energetic field, and from my spirit. And part of my practice lately has been going to yin and restorative hot yoga. Something that I’m releasing is chronic fatigue. So I’ve been doing more gentle exercise. But when I go and drop into hot yoga, the restorative, the yin, the lying down relaxing kind, when I drop into there, I go into that dark room. I hear that music, I smell the essential oils. I lie down on my mat and I drop quickly into a visionary journey.

00:06:55 – 00:07:58

And as I’m in this space where I feel held, opening my body, I’m brought into these spiritual, visionary shamanic journeys through past lifetimes, through learning and healing aspects of myself from other lifetimes. I’m dropping into these journeys of uniting these different parts of my being into one of healing all of these traumas that I’ve been through and reconnecting what has been severed. When I drop into these places, there is no past or present. It’s all happening and existing at once. And I know that time is part of the physical world, space and time. It’s how we navigate this physical world. But it is not part of the world of spirit.

00:07:59 – 00:08:32

When I drop into that world, I’m realizing that as I’m going back to connect with and heal and learn from and part of me in another lifetime. I’m realizing that they’re doing the work to connect with me from what is their future? A lifetime. Realizing that it’s all happening at once, that my soul is breast through all of these different lives. And as I’m going back and forward through what could be perceived as time.

00:08:32 – 00:09:50

It’s like I am weaving my spirit back together and as I do this, I’m meeting so many incredible guides and healers and being some are other versions of me and some are entirely different beings. And one of the last images I had, it was reminded me of a scene from Avatar. We were coming together and we were all sitting around a giant, magnificent tree made with light. With branches and roots that curl all around us and roots that go into the earth and connected all of me into one single being. And it was a great healing and wise tree. And it makes me think of Brazil, the tree that Odin sacrificed himself to, to create the runes, to bring knowledge and wisdom into the world is a tree that I see as a portal where souls come through. And is a tree that unifies me and my being my soul. And I don’t know its role beyond that, but I know my experience with it.

00:09:51 – 00:11:02

As I drop into these journeys, they are profound and emotional and illuminating. I go to other times and places. I went to one where I was an asetic devoted to grace, and I chose suffering intentionally as my entry point to that place. Choosing to raise my arm up and keep it up. I lived by a beautiful river under a tree. And I would bathe in that river and look up at the sun. And feel the earth around me. And the trees and the grass. And the other devotees that live nearby and held the frequency with me. And I would feel such a grace, just a presence of love and devotion for existence and for being. There are no words to express this feeling. But what I can say is I’m incredibly grateful to experience it both then and again now through the great tree that I’m going to call it.

00:11:02 – 00:11:51

So through my intention, through my shamanic work for the support of other practitioners who brought me to this moment of remembering myself as a soul in this lifetime, remembering myself as a soul through many lifetimes. And I’ve been forward and back very, very far. Remember my first wound to my spirit on earth when I realized the pain I was inflicting on another by taking their life, even though that life was an animal and my food. It was a moment of heartbreak and empathy. And I followed my life, followed my soul throughout many lifetimes forward and the many hard lessons learned over that time.

00:11:52 – 00:12:46

And while I still forget wisdom and things I’ve learned in this life. Coming back to that, knowing that richness and remembering. Something I am endlessly grateful for. For. I’m here now. I have been and I will be. It is my soul experiencing life, and I believe that it is that for each of us and our own way and our own path. And yet we forget the depths of our own being As we are here. We forget our interconnectedness of everything. And this holds a veil of illusion and confusion over our eyes and causes us to feel alone and scared and separate.

00:12:46 – 00:13:32

I’m here to hold a candle to your own wisdom and truth. I’m here to practice holding the frequency of truth and magic and love and the willingness to do it imperfectly. I’m here for the seekers who are searching. Find an answer to that calling in their soul that begs them to not give up until they find what it is they’re looking for. I’m here for the sensitive souls who feel so much, who feel so deeply. You feel beaten down and overwhelmed and heartbroken by life. By the harshness of this world.

00:13:32 – 00:14:29

I’m here to let you know that. You’re not alone. You’re not weak and you’re not broken. You are a gift. You have within you an innate ability to feel deeply. What is feel and sense? The subtle. This makes you an innately gifted healer, leader and creative. And I’m here to share a voice that I’ve neglected for some time, and that’s my authentic voice. You see, when we get caught up in confusion and comparison. You’d be hard to even know what that voice sounds like and not realize when you’re not sharing it. Until you step back into and connection with your deeper self.

00:14:29 – 00:15:13

So this is my authentic voice. My dear, that I am grateful to share energy with you, that I am humbled by the divinity within you, that I am at peace with all that is in this moment. It is nothing that will happen once one thing is achieved. It is here and now, in this moment. It is a state of being. I connectedness. And while I will move about my day and drop into other states and that are more of the mind, I will be here now with my candle lit next to me. Feeling this energy running through my body and my heart.

00:15:14 – 00:15:58

I’d like to allow some of my guys to speak now. Autumn. Share a message with you. But they want you to know at this time in the world, this is a time of great change, as you know, and see and feel. And these times are calling you to step back into your authenticity, into your true self. They are inviting you to drop the veil. And they’re doing it for suffering. This is the feedback that we are getting as the energy on the planet increases and what we could once do that was out of alignment we can no longer tolerate.

00:16:00 – 00:17:58

And so if we fight this shift, if we fight this increase in energy, in this intensity. It’s just going to create more suffering. What we’re being invited to do. Is. Listen. Listen to our bodies. Listen to our intuition. And listen to Spirit. And if you don’t know how to do that, that’s okay. Simply your intention. Is the first step. It is always with a decision that change happens. It is with a decision, the willingness to feel our body, to breathe deeply, to feel our emotions. To break the patterns and habits that haven’t been serving us to allow ourselves to be uncomfortable with the unfamiliar with the different. So that we may step out of the familiar, painful patterns that have been holding us back. And with this decision, it takes incredible faith because you don’t yet know all the magic that lies ahead for you. But, honey, if you did, you would jump in. In a heartbeat because it is the metamorphosis process. And as we burn away the parts of our past selves, it is fucking uncomfortable. It is at times scary and painful, but with your willingness. With your decision to not give up, you will find yourself.

00:17:58 – 00:18:52

You will find the answer to what calls you. You will embody the medicine that is within you that begs to be set free and serve the world. Thank you for being here with me. I want you to know that no matter where you are in your journey, no matter what you’ve been through, I hold space for you. I feel you. I see you. And I love you. You’re not alone. Even when it feels like you are. The voices that are unkind are not your true voice. You can tell them to fuck right off. Send them into the light and claim your space and your magic and your peace that is your birthright.

00:18:52 – 00:19:55

I’m here to hold the frequency with you, like a muscle. It is practice of coming back to remembering your own truth and holding that frequency. I’m going to do it with the support of my guides who held that frequency for me. My guides who hold the frequency and the initiation of our students. My guides who hold the magic in the ancient wisdom days long, long past. Hold the compassion and the forgiveness that we believe we need. Even though we are innocent. It was with the many light beings. I’m graced to work with and feel and experience their love. That I stand with you here today in service.

00:19:57 – 00:21:04

May we all reclaim our magic and share our medicine with the world. Thank you for listening. I’m Abigail Moss. If you’d like to learn more about me, you can find me at mind Body free on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at you or my Body Free Future episodes. You will find more interviews with healers and leaders and more messages and more channeled messages from me and from my guides. If you have any feedback or questions, reach out to me. Send me a DM. And if you feel the resonance of this, if this frequency is something that you want, support and holding, then check back again next week and I’ll be here. If you know someone who you feel needs to hear and feel this, please share it with them. And if you feel called to leave a review on iTunes to help get this light out more into the world. Thank you for listening from my heart to yours.

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25- Rosa Shetty

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Rosa Shetty, LCSW

In episode 25 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, Rosa Shetty, LCSW shares the science of trauma healing as well as her personal experience with ancestral healing.

Contact Rosa:
IG @rosashetty
Tiktok @rosashettylcsw

Contact Abigail:
Membership Community for Highly Sensitive People
IG @yourmindbodyfree
Tiktok @yourmindbodyfree


Mind Body Free Podcast Love

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss and today I am with the lovely Rosa Shetty. Rosa is a licensed clinical social worker and mental health therapist from Los Angeles, California. She has over 15 years of clinical experience helping adults heal from childhood trauma and generational and ancestral trauma. Rosa is also the host of the Inner Healing Paths podcast and develops workshops on healing from trauma and generational wounds. In the healing work she offers, Rosa intertwines inner child healing, ancestral reconnection, and spirituality with the latest research-based therapy. Thank you for being here, Rosa. Such an honor and treat.

Rosa (00:00:46) Thank you, Abigail, for inviting me.

Abby (00:00:49) My pleasure. And I love how much experience you have in this and clinical mental health. So can you tell me a bit about what is the differentiation on the clinical side of it? How does that work?

Rosa (00:01:02) So it has to do more with the specific approaches that we use to help folks recover from trauma. We incorporate a lot of brain science understanding and get a better sense of what the brain goes through and what the nervous system goes through. So folks can mean in the session, we provide that information. That’s part of the conversation. It’s part of education. In addition to the processing and the traditional psychotherapy techniques that we use and specifically for trauma, there is a lot of research or evidence-based practices to help folks recover from traumatic events, meaning to help the brain integrate these experiences, these traumas in the story or the sequence of other lives.

Rosa (00:01:57) When it comes to trauma. Trauma, I like to say it’s like a loose page of a book and the traumatic event is like this loose page that is just floating in the book. It represents your life. So our brain doesn’t quite know what to do with especially those events that leave us completely overwhelmed. Our brain doesn’t know how to deal with it or at least certain experiences our brain may not know. So the process of traumatization is like that loose page. So when, when we work through our traumatic memories, when we heal, or when we seek therapy for this, it’s like we’re stitching back this loose page into literally stitching into the sequence.

Rosa (00:02:43) And so you can have more of a cohesive narrative of your life so your brain can make sense of what happened and it can be part of your story. Not, not, not something you constantly triggered. Some people dissociate. Some people just have a really hard time with relationships and it can cause it just affects many areas of your life. So that’s what when we mean in a clinical sense, we’re working through those traumatic memories.

Abby (00:03:16) Love that. Thank you. I love the blend of, like, evidence-based. These works are what we’re going to do. That’s, you know, the proven techniques that work with brain science. Do you? I feel that when someone can explain to me the science of what’s happening in my brain, it opens up this grounded perspective of, oh, okay, so this is normal. And here’s the next step to shifting this.

Rosa (00:03:47) Absolutely

Abby(00:03:48) Yeah. And do you find that like when you were explaining brain science to people, what kind of reactions do you get? Is it like, have people heard of these things before? Because I feel like brain science and trauma are not something that we all know a whole bunch.

Rosa (00:04:05) About, right? Yeah. And when it comes to the psychoeducation part, which is explaining what happens in the brain in very simple terms, because I’m not a neuroscientist. So the way I understand it is also in very simple terms, and that’s how I explain it. So when that explanation is provided, depending on the situation, depending on the context of what we’re discussing, there is their compassion that that is allowed there is a cognitive understanding of what happened. And interestingly enough, in a lot of these therapy modalities, psychoeducation is part of the healing journey and is a component that helps your journey.

Rosa (00:04:56) So learning about this is important. And usually, before I know we’re jumping into this topic, but when we’re starting, when we work through traumatic memories, we don’t start working on any traumatic memories until there is an understanding of what happens in the brain. What happened to you? What must have been like for that five-year-old or six-year-old from a nervous system perspective, what was going on in the brain? So there needs to be that that’s it’s foundational it’s a block foundational block that needs to be that is very much part of the healing journey. Yeah.

Abby (00:05:38) That’s beautiful. I love that. I’m all about giving people foundational blocks. It’s so empowering.

Rosa (00:05:45) Yeah, absolutely.

Abby (00:05:46) And. Yeah. And so do you refer back to that science as you’re going through that journey? Because you mentioned, you know, it’s like this is step one as we learn what’s going on in the brain and the nervous system. And would you mind like I don’t know if it’s possible to do like a high-level view of what happens in our brain, in our nervous system when we go through trauma and as we’re healing? How does that change your time?

Rosa (00:06:16) Yeah. So, you know, trauma by definition is when our nervous system, our brain is completely overwhelmed. So our normal way of functioning is just thrown out. It’s completely out of the frontal part of our brain, which is a part that is in charge of making decisions and is the part that we were when we’re in a place where we feel safe and at ease, that’s active, that’s when we experience trauma. That part goes offline. And what kicks in is the animal, the primitive or animal responses. And I’m sure you’ve heard of the fight or flight response. There’s when it comes to trauma, there’s also fighter flight. And there’s also the submission that there are some animals in the wild.

Rosa (00:07:11) They pretend to be dead. Right? They bring death. That’s a response. So when we go through a traumatic event, those are the responses that kick in. That’s the part of a brain that is active. And depending on the context of the situation, not every situation that we may perceive as traumatic is traumatizing to the brain because it depends on the resources that that person already had in their environment. It depends on the relationships. It depends on how long the extent of the trauma is. Was it a single incident or was it a continuation of incidents over years?

Rosa (00:07:57) So there is a great variation in terms of traumatization. It doesn’t look the same for everyone. So that’s why it’s really difficult when people compare experiences. And I went through that and I’m fine, you know, and then someone else is, is, is not given the same circumstance or even the same family, right? Even just a group of siblings. Right. They may have all experienced the same event and one may be deeply impacted for life. And another one may just channel that in a specific way. And so it’s very so trauma is very, very individual. It’s a very individualized response. But more or less, that is by definition, when we say we were traumatized by an animal, the primitive part of our brain kicks in.

Rosa (00:08:58) And that’s how we know we’re in that mode. So that’s more or less what happens. Then there’s more specifically the amygdala is very much involved in regulating the communication between those parts of our brain, the part of our brain that the primitive responses and the frontal part. So when we’re traumatized, the amygdala completely shuts down the communication with the frontal part of our brain. So over time, when we’re working through trauma, we are working with the amygdala. There is a technique that I practice called davening. I don’t know if you’ve heard of it. It involves touch, right?

Rosa (00:09:45) There are three touches, three specific movements, and I’m doing it right now. There’s that with your palms. And then you rub your arms up and down and then on your face, right? So what that is, is they call it the creators of this approach. They call it the CPR for the amygdala. And these touches, for some reason, help the amygdala communicate with the part of your brain that can help you feel at ease, that can help you feel grounded, and that can help you feel safe. When we are triggered, when we are overwhelmed again, even regardless of how long it’s been since the trauma happened, it could be 20, 30, or 40 years. If we’re triggered, we’re back there.

Rosa (00:10:39) Right. So implementing techniques like davening, especially with the guidance of someone that is trained, can be helpful. To re-provide help and rewire the part of those parts of your brain so there can be that communication. So your primitive brain doesn’t completely hijack you in those moments when it’s not appropriate or you’re 30 years ago something happened and now you’re at work and you have a terrible boss and you can’t deal with this boss. And as a grown-up, because you’re back there. Right, 34 years ago. So this is so when we implement healing or healing or trauma healing techniques, that’s really what we’re doing.

Rosa (00:11:29) We’re rewiring these parts of your brain so they can communicate so that the primitive animal responses like fight or flight or submit don’t take over. And or like I said, some people just completely dissociate. They’re no longer in their body. So that’s more or less what we go through in every situation. As I said, it’s different depending on the age and the complexity of what happened to them. And the age is trauma that occurs pre-verbal. Is it manifested a bit differently for those that the trauma occurred a little bit later when they’re when there is cognitive memory?

Rosa (00:12:16) And then again, some people experience trauma at a point where they can’t remember, but they don’t. The brain blocks certain traumatic events. So it is a very so it’s just a very individualized approach. Yeah. Everyone experiences it very differently. Yeah.

Abby (00:12:37) That’s beautiful. I love that and I love that you mentioned that because it’s such an individualized approach comparison. It doesn’t apply at all because we’re all going through such different things. And the way that I experience an event is so different from the way someone else experiences it. And I love that you touch on what is my support? Do I have the resources, the tools to work through it? Do I have the community to help me through it? How long did it last? There are so many factors that can apply. I think it creates a lot of empathy to say, you know, for me to say I don’t know what they went through.

Abby (00:13:20) I don’t know what it was like for them to go through that. So there’s no way that I could say, Oh, I went through something like that. They should be okay or right, you know, I should be okay by now. There’s no should. This is what happened. This is where we are now. I think it creates a lot of compassion for each other as well as ourselves. Like this is where I’m at and that’s okay.

Rosa (00:13:40) Yeah, absolutely. And you know, it’s also a journey. You know, it’s also very much a journey because I knew that just from my own life, just some of the things that I went through, I was quote-unquote, okay, I was fine for a few years. And then a breakup happened. And then that brought to the surface things that I had not addressed from childhood when I became a mom. You know, two years ago I had a baby. And that brought up more stuff than the surface things that I had not even considered, as you know, that would come up. And they came up and I had to work through that and I’m still working through that. So I feel that sometimes we work through our difficulties as best as we can, depending on our resources and the support.

Rosa (00:14:29)
Rosa: And then and then we’re okay. We’re, you know, we feel great or we feel like, okay, I feel like I got a good handle on my triggers. I feel like I’ve worked through some of my childhood difficulties and then a life event happens, right? A change in a boss. Like I said, for some reason, a lot of folks that I see come in because there’s a lot of it’s a window, right? It’s an entryway to heal. And for some reason, being in the workplace, a difficult boss, being in that power dynamic is so triggering for so many people. And I don’t know, for some reason that’s the doorway. That’s the doorway to work through. And that may not even be the reason. Working under childhood difficulties is not even the reason why they’re coming in.

Rosa (00:15:21) They’re coming in because they are overwhelmed, and stressed with work. They feel like they can’t work. They can’t continue. And it’s just the tip of the iceberg. Right underneath is all of the trauma that they experience. And somehow this person, this boss, is reminding their nervous system of what has happened. Because the body or nervous system doesn’t pick up on it. It’s not a rational process. This is a boss. This is not so-and-so from 20, 30 years ago. Our body just responds to the trigger that feels familiar.

Abby (00:16:03) Yeah. And I love that you call it a doorway. I see it that way, too. It’s like this trigger is an entry point to healing, something that’s very likely been there for a very long time. And in that healing, it’s kind of like a reclamation of a part of yourself. It’s like this is an opportunity to let go of something and become lighter at the moment. It sucks and doesn’t feel that way at all. Right.

Rosa (00:16:27) Right, right.

Abby (00:16:28) But when you do the work with someone like you when you are willing to go into those places of discomfort in a supported way, then it is a place that you can move through and just become so much stronger and happier.

Rosa (00:16:44) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I think for a lot of folks, a lot of times is bringing in compassion, bringing and understanding for self, for those wounded parts. And that’s when the concept of the inner child is so powerful and becomes very powerful. Because when we use that as a way to connect with those wounded parts because we know when we’re talking about connecting with the wounded parts, that can be scary. Most people do not want to revisit those parts from the past. But when we bring in the element of an inner child, it helps folks conceptualize their trauma in a way that is more gentle and in a more compassionate way.

Rosa (00:17:41) And again, using the doorway analogy, it becomes an entryway also for other healing. And it becomes a very powerful visual to connect with that part within themselves that needs that compassion, that needs that healing and the sense of safety. So sometimes that, that, ah, the parental instinct kicks in and we want to protect and we want to help and we want to and we just naturally a lot, you know, a lot of folks are just naturally compassionate towards a child. Right. And so when we conceptualize that within ourselves, it just makes it so much easier to work through those very, very difficult wounded parts within us.

Abby (00:18:31) Yeah, 100%. I love inner child work and something that my husband and I see in this phenomenal couples therapist and that she says is, you know, the parent is the compassionate one. The inner child is the one that needs the love. But when we stand in our adult self, then compassion comes. And of course, we want to take care of this younger part of us that’s hurting or wants to feel loved or safe or supported in some way. It just becomes natural and being able to put a face to it and engage and interact with that part of ourselves, it’s so freeing. It’s where it gives so much insight and understanding into Why am I just so angry? It’s like, Oh, what’s behind that anger? Oh, maybe there’s, you know, a sad child behind that anger. What does she need or what does she need?

Rosa (00:19:26) Yeah, absolutely. And it’s just amazing. Just when we shift our attention, or I should say, when the intention is to connect with our inner child. And it’s amazing what comes up. And the insight that we immediately receive is almost like we get these downloads because we do hold so much compassion and healing energy within us. So when we can intentionally connect those to the compassion, the healing energy that we have with our inner child, we not just heal, but we also gain an understanding. And we were able to just make sense. And sometimes our brain just takes us to a time in our life we had not even connected a present event with a memory from childhood.

Rosa (00:20:25) And when we set that intention to connect with our inner child, our brain will just take us there. It’s just amazing how that works. And suddenly we’re there and we have a memory of being three or four, whatever, whatever the age and we get it. We’re like, okay, that makes sense. Why is this so hard? So it’s triggering for me now.

Abby (00:20:47) Yeah. So freeing to understand that that’s you know, for me I’ve been in places where I’ve been angry and then angry at myself for being angry because why? Why am I acting this way? I shouldn’t feel this way. And then to be able to go back to that part of my younger self. Just understanding. I feel like compassion comes as the confusion goes away. And then there’s this. Then there’s the opportunity to reclaim that part of herself because it’s like that part of us was kind of trapped at that age when that trauma happened.

Abby (00:21:19) Like in shamanic healing, we call an inner child a form of soul retrieval. It’s like reclaiming a part of ourselves that got splintered off and stuck in time. And when there’s that reunion with that part of ourselves, when that healing happens, it feels like just becoming filled with love, becoming filled up with you again. And it’s such an incredible experience to feel that.

Rosa (00:21:42) Yeah, absolutely. And I feel that just being able to read, it’s almost like you give yourself your past self, you’re a second chance. And it’s almost like a rebirth in a way, right? You’re able to redo what maybe your parents weren’t able to do for you or you’re able to give yourself what you weren’t able to receive back then. So it becomes like a second chance, right, to start over, you know? And it’s just such a beautiful experience. I’ve done shamanic healing for myself and inevitably it always, you know, I tend to go back to just naturally, even when I’m not in the same therapy. Every now I’m doing more of the spiritual healing work for myself in my mind just takes me there, right? And it automatically just, I go to a different time and to be able to, to see yourself in that time.

Rosa (00:22:50) And it’s just such a beautiful experience. I know the last opportunity I had to do that, to do this soul retrieval exercise was a couple of years ago. And I forgot what I was working through. But it was for me. What was amazing is that when I did this journey, it took me back to being like in my twenties, in this specific house that I was living in at that time. And there was a part of my soul that was there in that house and journey through that, and seeing that space and seeing every corner of almost even just being able to to take a tour of that house as me now. But seeing myself there was just that in and of itself.

Rosa (00:23:46) And I know the guide was just asking me to just call back that part because I need that part here now. You know, I can’t stay in my twenties in that house. I need it now. And so being able to call back that, that, that part of my early twenties that was stuck in that house was so healing for me. And, and I mean, I know it didn’t take that long. It wasn’t a very long exercise, but it was so powerful. But again, it’s allowing yourself to redo, you know, it’s like giving yourself a second chance and being that companion for yourself in therapy, you know, you have a guide and you know, when you’re doing some shamanic healing, you also have a guide.

Rosa (00:24:34) That is critical to not feel alone because so much of the trauma that we experience happens in isolation. It happens a lot. For a lot of folks, the actual process of traumatization has to do with being completely alone. Whether you feel alone or you’re alone with no way to escape or no chance of getting help in that situation, no choice in the matter because you’re just there alone. So that becomes a huge component of healing, is to feel like your companion for that little one within you or to allow for some for someone else, a healer or a therapist or a shamanic or shaman. Right? That would be the term shaman to guide you, right?

Rosa (00:25:35) To guide, to be with you in a relationship in those moments that you’re revisiting. And so you don’t feel alone. And the beautiful thing about it is that your nervous system responds to that, our body responds to that. And that’s what starts changing these neural pathways in our brain that let us know that we are safe. We are okay. We’re not alone. And we have a choice. Right. So the choice is the second component of trauma. It happens in isolation and then it happens. And we don’t have a choice. We’re stuck. We have to take it for our survival. So, so, so. Being able to have the choice to go back and heal these parts and be in a relationship either within ourselves.

Rosa (00:26:29) Right. As I am the older one now going back and more in that parental role to our inner child or allowing our the guide, the therapist or the healer to guide us through that. These two components are just so, so powerful for our brain, our nervous system, for our spirit.

Abby (00:26:48) Yeah. Absolutely. It’s incredible. And I love that. It’s like we kind of become when we go back as an adult to revisit the inner child, it’s like we become the healer for ourselves. And we realize from a time that we may have felt so helpless that we become so empowered, we realize how strong we are to be able to heal this stuff, especially with the support of a guide. And you had to do work with generational trauma as well. So this stuff that we come into the world with isn’t, doesn’t necessarily start with us.

Rosa (00:27:21) No, it’s yeah, rarely. It rarely does. So one of the things that I learned very, very early on in my career, when I started my career working in I was doing child abuse investigations. I was a social worker for the Department of Children Services, Children Family Services here in California and Southern California. And so I was going out there and doing investigations of neglect, physical, sexual abuse, everything. And I was young. I was in my twenties. As I said, it was a very challenging part of my life. But it was also more of a calling, I felt and I don’t know if it was more of this, the soul, you know, I went off course, I, I think anyone that goes into this field, they go into for a reason, right?

Rosa (00:28:15) So I went through it because I was trying to unconsciously heal a lot of what I had experienced and maybe even from a past life, maybe from my family. But here I was being very young and helping or doing these investigations. But what was frustrating about it is that for a lot of these children that were now being the victims of X, Y, and Z abuse or neglect, their parents were also victims and it was generations. I remember the specific part that we were working through as it’s a small desert community here in California and it’s a very, very small community. And the families were already known to the system. It was like, Oh if you had been in the department long enough, you likely knew the parent or the grandparent, and then you.

Rosa (00:29:11) So it’s like that you get to see like three generations of this. So that’s a very direct way, right? It’s very generational trauma. There are also more subtle ones or there are those that we don’t talk about, those silent memories that we don’t quite know what happened. But especially if you’re intuitive or you’re an impact, you have a sense almost as if you’ve always had a sense of a specific situation, even though you’ve never experienced it. And then when you investigate, when you find out, you realize that your grandma or your grandpa or whoever or your parents went through something like you had experienced.

Rosa (00:29:56) For example, for a long time, especially when I was young, I think it was like during my teen years, I started getting worried about public transportation and I was afraid of getting into a taxicab. I was super scared of any of that. And later, as an adult, like just with like two or three years ago, I found out what happened to two generations of women, meaning I starting from my great grandmother to my grandma, you know, in public transportation, like they’ve all experienced some house, some type of trauma in public transportation, in a taxi, in a bus. So and so it was I had never heard those stories, you know, when I was I but I just started having this fear. And when I was pregnant, again, these irrational fears started coming through for me.

Rosa (00:31:00) And I know, of course, when you’re pregnant, everything is related to the pregnancy and hormones. And I’m sure it was also related to that. But there was also this element of like I’m like my life is in danger. Like my baby’s life is in danger. And I’m, you know, thankfully, thank God I was healthy, baby. Healthy consistently throughout. There were no issues in that regard. It was just an irrational fear that I had. And that prompted me to want to find out more about my grandmother’s pregnancies, my mom’s pregnancies with me, and with my siblings. And and and finding and finding out. Stuff happened to them too. So it was those connections. Sometimes the generational traumas get transferred through silent memories that we experience.

Rosa (00:31:56) And we don’t know what I mean. I am lucky that I’m able to find out, to have the awareness of asking and with that intention of piecing together these, these, these parts of my history. But so many of us just go through life without that awareness. So it’s really important and especially when it comes to irrational fears, when it comes to sudden, especially sudden phobias, too. To find out if you’re if you have parents or grandparents around you to ask those questions. Because you know from just my personal life, I was shocked to find out the direct connection of the fears that I was having.

Abby (00:32:46) Yeah. Yeah, it’s incredible. I love the term silent memories and yeah, what a gift to be able to find out where that was coming from. When you found that out, did it make it easier to work through that fear?

Rosa (00:33:00) Yeah. You know, when I found out about what was going on with my pregnancy and it’s a trauma story that is that didn’t happen to me. You know it was something that I was experiencing or intuiting because I’m an empath and I think you and I have talked about this. So I think I was just intuiting this at that level. And it’s a story that doesn’t belong to me. So out of privacy for that person, I’m I don’t I’m not going to share it. But what I can tell you is that once I found out what happened, it was like it was pretty overwhelming for me. And at that time, I was working as a therapist for myself. I was just continuing my work, my healing journey.

Rosa (00:33:52) And when that happened, I remember that thankfully, I have someone to process this with to make sense of this in the context of my history, my reactions, and traumas. And I was able to, as I said at the beginning of the podcast, stitch those pages back into this, this narrative of my life. And even though it didn’t happen to me, it is part of my history because it’s my lineage, it’s where I come from. And for me, it helped to make sense. But I think it was a good week or two where I was pretty impacted by this. You know, it was almost as if I was working through personal trauma, even though it didn’t happen to me, I was very much responding and integrating this.

Rosa (00:34:49) I think my brain, my nervous system was trying to make sense of this the same way I would if it had happened. So it was a very real, very, very difficult experience. But thankfully, I have had support. It happened in my thirties. I have a lot of resources available to me and I was able to work through them. It did take me a few weeks to come to terms with that. But I feel, again, going back to that analogy, I was able to just integrate that as part of my history. Integrate that page. That was a page of my book.

Abby (00:35:27) Yeah, that’s beautiful. Yeah, it’s almost like the term kind of acknowledgment and honor comes to mind. It’s like, oh, okay, this. I’ve witnessed this.

Rosa (00:35:36) Yeah.

Abby (00:35:37) So, yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And it makes me think of your know-how. In different cultures and different things, we’ve been through. Like, did my ancestors live through a famine or, you know, a massive recession? I mean, we think about, you know, feelings of money scarcity or food scarcity or just scarcity, period. Like that stuff just goes so far back. And it’s I kind of see it as we heal the stuff inside ourselves, we’re healing the stuff throughout the whole lineage for all those who come after us. And that’s beautiful work that you’re doing for your child. And in doing this in our work yourself.

Rosa (00:36:19) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think since becoming a mom, that has been a huge part of my motivation and my intention now for my healing is because, you know, if we don’t work through these difficulties, inevitably, you know, the energy, the legacy of these trauma wounds do get passed on. There’s an energy component to this. And so I intend to heal and to integrate this into my own life experience for the rest of my life. Because really, when they’re starting trauma that you can work through. But there are other things that you mentioned, these other generational or ancestral trauma that may take us a very long time to work through or to even understand. Right.

Rosa (00:37:09) So I know for me, it’s going to be a lifelong journey of just improving myself. Not so, you know, the way I see it is I’m working through these generational wounds and ancestral wounds and just what I went through in my own life. But I see it as an ongoing process of just bettering and just improving myself, my mental health, my physical health, and my spiritual health for me and my daughter, you know, for me and my for my also for my, my, my mom, my sister. You know, since I started this journey of healing, there’s been a lot of healing that has happened naturally without me necessarily or without them sorry, doing anything, or me saying anything to them.

Rosa (00:37:56) I’ve just noticed some shifts in there, in their own individual lives that, that, that, that shows that they’re working through their difficulties, their wounds. And I think that’s a beautiful thing because that’s what happens, right, is we’re all connected. So when one heals or improves, inevitably those close to us will also receive that ripple effect, because we’re all connected, especially with our close family. It’s going to be received. It’s going to be impacted also. Yeah.

Abby (00:38:33). And I love that you mentioned that. I think a lesson for me is, you know, instead of being the one who wants to heal my family, heal my parents, you know, make everything okay, make it all better, take their pain away for them, which I can’t do. I can just duplicate hearing it, but instead, be that step into integrating myself and embodying that. And then naturally people see and it’s an invitation to do their work if they call too. But also in the subtle, I know you mentioned being empathic and working with the energy of it. They feel that too. It’s like it’s a little lighter in that whole generational line, just kind of things.

Rosa (00:39:15) Lighten up. Yeah, absolutely. Or they reconnect with their voice, for example. Or they reconnect with something that they love to do as a child. And somehow that gives them so much joy at this point in there, you know, so, so and so. For example, for my mom, one of the things that started happening a few years ago is that she started connecting with, well, my mom has always loved plants, but what happened a few years ago is that she started using plants to help people around her get better. And then she wrote this little book. It’s not published. It’s just like for us, for the family. She put it all together in writing and she emailed it to all of us. And it’s like 30 pages, I don’t know. Like it’s a lot of pages of all her healing, all her healing and remedies, and herbs that she uses. And she did that all on her own.

Rosa (00:40:13) And I was just so fascinated by that process as she was and I was supporting her and me without telling her. I think this is healing. I think this is going to be I didn’t say any of that. I didn’t say anything about our family and our lineage or generational wisdom. Nothing. And I was just encouraging like, I love this. Thank you for sharing this. And she found so much joy and so much pride in putting this together for all of us. That was healing for her. And that hadn’t. That I had nothing. To do with anything I share. I think she saw there was a period where I was also really into the plant and I was planting things and that kind of prompted her idea. And so you just never know what’s what, how you can inspire those around you, and even beyond that. Right. Because I’m sure some people have benefited from her healing that I don’t even know about, but you just never know how you can just start that process for yourself, most importantly. And then inevitably, because it’s energy all it’s all energy, it’s going to be received by those near and close to us.

Abby (00:41:23) That’s so beautiful. I love that she just took it upon herself to create this. And I see that being healing for her. And also just this transfer of knowledge to what a gift to your family to bring.

Rosa (00:41:37) Yeah. Absolutely. I feel that it was all because my grandma is no longer here. She passed away 15 years ago, but when she passed away, a lot of that knowledge was gone because at that time, no one was not in that mindset, you know, to pass on anything, you know, for her, it was just survival. So there was none of that. And then when my mom was putting together these remedies, she was remembering a lot of her mom’s remedies and what her mom used to do. And, you know, and so I think the way I like to see it is that we go through that process. My grandmother was also being given that healing giving her legacy was. On. So there’s an ambulance outside.

Abby (00:42:36) That’s okay. Life happens around. Yeah.

Rosa (00:42:40) So it was. So through that, we. I feel that you know, a generation before and generations after, you can now have this opportunity to heal and integrate this wisdom. Right. And, yeah.

Abby (00:42:56) That’s beautiful. And it’s something that it’s so good to be aware of, too, because we talk about ancestral trauma, but there’s also ancestral wisdom. And to feel that wisdom of all those that came before us and that used to be really common practice in more indigenous cultures before colonialism. This knowledge we get passed down from generation to generation, and that got interrupted right through the process of colonialism. So to like you said, she remembered and it’s this beautiful remembering. And you know what? From her mother and that was part of her mother’s remembering from her. So it’s beautiful to see. I kind of picture that as like an opening up and this healing that’s able to flow through the line again.

Rosa (00:43:40) Oh, yes.

Abby (00:43:41) Wisdom that wants to come through.

Rosa (00:43:42) Yeah, absolutely. I know where we’re running out of time, but one of the things that it was it was such an amazing time because I honestly feel that my mom, my grandma was wanting this to happen. I feel that she was so happy to see that we were having this intention to reclaim these healings, these herbs, as, as our wisdom, as to reclaim it and to pass it on. One of the things that started happening to me is that during that time that all this was going on, my mom was writing this. I suddenly started getting things from my grandma. So my grandma passed away. Like I said, many, many years ago, I never received anything from her.

Rosa (00:44:36) She passed away. I was in college and it was just I never really thought of obtaining any of her objects. She had a lot of sayings and a lot of religious items and things that later on in life, I was like, Oh, I wish I would have kept something from her. I wish I would have had something but never did. And then what started happening is that my mom came back one day. She was like, Oh, I found this, this, this statue of, of the Guadalupe Virgen Guadalupe. And I was like, Oh my God, this is my grandmother. She’s like, Yeah, it was a little chipped. And I was like, Oh, it’s, it’s beautiful. And she’s like, Yeah, just clean it up. I know you will like it. My mom doesn’t she doesn’t believe in saints or any of that. She’s a born-again Christian.

Rosa (00:45:26) So she very, very doesn’t like any of that stuff. So she’s like, I know. I knew you would like it. So I wanted to give it to her like, Oh, thank you. Where did you find that? And she’s like, Oh, I was laying, you know, just in the garage, blah, blah. Okay. The fort. Like a couple of weeks later, she came back with like two other items that she found. And then I was like, Why are these things coming to me now? It was like a period of like a month where I got all of these different items that I got her my Bible, and I got all these. I was like, Where is this? I was just so perplexed because all of a sudden this started happening and I was talking to a friend of mine and she’s very spiritual. She channels her spirit guides and in her spirit guides share a lot of information with her about others when, when, and when that is welcomed.

Rosa (00:46:18) So she was telling me from her perspective, what her spirit guys were sharing with her is that these are the items that gave your grandmother strength during the worst times of her life. And she sees what you’re doing for her daughters, for her granddaughters. And this is her way of saying, thank you, I’m tearing up. And this is her way of saying thank you. And I was just very touched, but it didn’t stop there. What she says is she wants you to do one more thing. She wants you to visit your grandfather one one time, one more time. And this is not for you’re not going to do anything. You don’t have to do anything. You don’t have to. My grandfather’s very elderly, but he wasn’t a good man. He was just very, very he was very he didn’t do good things.

Rosa (00:47:19) So I don’t. I didn’t have a relationship with him and I didn’t have a desire to connect with him, even though he’s still alive. And so when this message came through, a girl wanted you to see him one more time. She is well, she has worked through her karmic debt with him. There is nothing that her soul needs from him. They’re done. Their karmic debt has been done. But there is something important with you visiting him that for some somehow it’s at a soul level and that’s all I’m getting. It’s just like there’s a cycle that needs to be completed and this needs to happen. And I was just so torn because I really did not want to see him. And at the same time, I wanted to do this for my grandma. So it took me several months. I think it was like six months or so.

Rosa (00:48:14) But I eventually went out there, I went to visit him and I was back in my grandma’s house. He still lives there and it was a very emotional process. But it was with him, it was fine. There was no it wasn’t as difficult as I thought it was going to be. I was able to just chit-chat with him. He asked me to play two specific songs for him and like I said, he’s very he’s elderly. He doesn’t have conversations now, but he’ll come up with certain things. So he asked me to play these songs from the 1930s. One of them was I Was a Thorn in Your Past. It was a Spanish song, but that’s the name of the title. And he asked me to look it up on YouTube and play it for him. So I looked it up and the music. I don’t know why he asked for this one, but it was a poem of forgiveness, basically saying, I was a thorn in your path. On your path, but I am sorry.

Rosa (00:49:10) So it was a song and he loves the song. And so I took that message. I don’t know, for me from a grandma, I don’t know. But it was there. And then before I left, the person that takes care of him said, Oh, I’ve been keeping this. It’s a set of miniature collections. It’s like I’ve been keeping this miniature collection. It’s like little forest animals and like little things that my grandma kept in a box. It’s like I’ve been keeping this because I thought it was cute. I had it up on a wall, but it doesn’t make any sense. It doesn’t have sentimental value to me. So I want you to have it. And I remember that from that my grandma had this little collection of miniature forest animals. And when I took that, the message I got in the moment, it was like, I just thank you. This was her last gift as a thank you.

Rosa (00:50:07) This is her little, precious little collection of forest animals. And it was her way of saying thank you to me for doing this. One last thing for her and her husband, my grandpa. So it was a full-circle moment for me. It was a process, like I said, of many, many years. And I was able to feel like at that moment I felt done. And weirdly enough, I have not felt my grandma as often as I used to. I have not received any more items from her. My mom and I, of course, still talk about her, but the way it was during those years, it wasn’t. It’s almost like she’s good now. I don’t know how to describe it. I haven’t talked to my friend that did the reading for me at that time. But I felt like there’s a sense of OC. I like she’s done for now at least with this. Yeah.

Rosa (00:51:06) So I just want to share that little story because I felt I’m such a, for me, spirituality and integrating these ancestral memories and ancestral healing components. For me, it’s just part of what I do. So I wanted to share this experience because it gave me so much healing on an emotional, physical and spiritual level. And it’s something that it wasn’t in one sitting. It’s not like I sat and I talked about this and then I knew it was a process, but the key, I think for folks out there listening, is to be able to have that intention of wanting to reconnect and heal from these wounds or things that have. Passed down the lineage. I think it starts with that intention and the awareness that you do have certain things that you want to work through and they didn’t start with you and that they may no longer be here in person, but as energy is spirit form, that may still be very much involved.

Rosa (00:52:07) And we welcome that. It can be such a huge and powerful source for our ongoing healing. It’s a component of our healing as well. It’s healing. Our trauma from the brain perspective is one component, but there’s also the spirit that we have to tend to. And that’s why I wanted to share this story and I hope it resonates.

Abby (00:52:30) That’s so beautiful. Thank you for sharing. I was just feeling so much love around as you’re talking about it. Like around your grandma, your grandfather and and and gratitude, it feels like for you doing that. And how incredible to have that moment with that song to do and to feel and to have that come full circle. Those full circle moments are so heart-expanding and profound. Absolutely beyond words. So.

Rosa (00:53:00) Absolutely, yeah. And my daughter, I took my baby with me. My daughter and my mom were there with me, too. So it was like this generational healing. And we all felt, my mom, mind you, she just didn’t have what I was what I had in mind. Right. My intention was very different. She was just there because she always has a relationship with her father. So she was just visiting him and she was just so happy that I finally agreed to see him. And that sense of giddiness, a sense of joy was felt for my mom. For my mom told me she experienced that for so many days after and same for me so many days after that experience, I still felt that sense of giddiness and joy. It was just so uplifting energetically that we just felt happy for a long time after that, which was also a very, very beautiful reward to experience. Yeah.

Abby (00:53:57) I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here today and doing this work. Your mind, body, and spirit. Yeah. So, Rosa, people want to reach out to you. How can they find you?

Rosa (00:54:07) Yeah. So I’m on Instagram. Of course you can just find me by my name, Rosa Shetty. And I also have a podcast. It’s called Inner Healing Paths. And my podcast is all about just different ways of healing. I interview people. I had you, Abigail. I think you were actually the last episode I uploaded the last one there. Yeah. So I just talk about all things related to healing of the mind, the heart, and the spirit. And I also have a Patreon and we meet once a month and we talk about in a more personal and deeper way about just different healing topics. In June, we’re going to be talking about parenting our inner child, and the patron is for women only. But of course, the podcast is for everybody.

Abby (00:54:53) Yeah, awesome. That’s beautiful. I love it. And we’ll put those all in the show notes as well. Thank you for being here. It has been such a pleasure. So much love to you and all this incredible work that you’re doing in the world.

Rosa (00:55:06)  Thank you. Thank you, Abigail.


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24-Imposter Syndrome

purple banner for imposter syndrome

Imposter Syndrome

In episode 24: Imposter Syndrome, I unpack what imposter syndrome is, how to recognize if you have it, and what you can do to overcome it. And if you’re ready for imposter syndrome to stop holding you back and stealing your joy, we are focusing on overcoming imposter syndrome for all of August in the in the Mind Body Free Community. Sign up for your free trial at the link below and join us in saying goodbye to imposter syndrome so you can create and live a life you love!

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Full Show Transcript

Hello and welcome to the mind-body free podcast, where you will find all things healing and awakening, from evocative conversations to guided meditations to incredible insight on how to heal and regulate your nervous system, how to heal your soul and come into wholeness, and how to tap into your limitless potential and follow your purpose in this world. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I am a healer, mentor and coach trainer. I’m here to support the healing and awakening of life on earth by helping you to remember the magic of who you truly are. Thank you for being here. I hope you enjoy the show.

Hello friends, how are you doing today? Personally, I’ve just gotten over COVID, which was an interesting journey, being my first time experiencing that. Fortunately for me and my husband it wasn’t too severe. I still feel like a little bit of recovery on one day. It’s probably going to take a couple more weeks before I get everything out of my lungs. But overall I’m doing ok and happy to have my energy back and really happy to be full of antibodies for the next few months. So go lick some doorknobs, not really, but I could, but I won’t so anyway, I want to talk to you guys today about something that is an affliction that is so widespread and so unnecessary, an I’m talking about impostor syndrome, and impostor syndrome is this feeling, this nagging feeling, this voice in the head, this belief that you are going to get found out as an impostor, as a fraud, as someone who is not deserving of being in this role, this job title being perceived in this way? It’s like underneath. There’s a part of you that’s afraid you’re going to get found out, that your going to be seen and deemed unworthy or not good enough to be doing what you’re doing or even what you want to be doing? 

So impostor syndrome, how it shows up in your life. It could be you are already doing something you want to be doing and that you love, but you don’t feel like you deserve it or like you belong or like you’re going to be able to keep doing it, like you feel like you’re going to be found out. Another way it can show up is preventing you from even stepping into attempting to get that promotion or do that work you really love, or maybe take a training to become someone else, something else. You know it your career to do something that’s more purposeful. It can prevent you from doing that and it can show up as avoidance, as you know, thinking about it, thinking a lot about it, but then just not taking action or getting really close and finally getting that big break that you want. Maybe you’ve been trying to get a certain kind of writing gig and you make a contact and it could make a lot of changes for you. But then you don’t follow-up it’s this sort of self sabotaging behavior that is a symptom of impostor syndrome. 

I hear it talked about quite a bit quite prevalent and it’s talked about in a way that would assume that it’s just an affliction like some sort of incurable disease. I laugh at that because it’s not. It’s incurable and it’s a common thing that so many of us deal with. But you can a 100% absolutely break through it and it doesn’t have to take years to do that. So the reason we have in poster syndrome is quite simply on a subconscious level, beginning very likely from childhood. We don’t believe that we are good enough and not feeling good enough is a very, very common thing. So when we are younger, when we’re little children, we don’t have the ability to rationalize. So we perceive the way others behave as a reflection of our own value. So if we’re little and someone isn’t around, say our parents are busy working or absent or dealing with their own struggles, not there to give us the care and attention that we crave, our minds subconsciously would could deduce that they’re not around. They’re not around because I’m not enough. 

I’m not enough for them or I’m not good enough. I didn’t get chosen for the soccer team because I’m not good enough in that moment. Boom, a subconscious belief is formed. Not good enough, not enough, and that hangs out in the subconscious in the background, where we’re not even consciously thinking about it. It hangs out in our subconscious mind throughout our whole life, until we go and update that belief from when we were very young. So most of us are walking around with beliefs that we formed about our own identity from the time we were four or 56 younger, even babies. It might be worth while to update those beliefs. They could use some improvement, and how we do that is through going into the subconscious. There’s something called hypnosis, which is just becoming very relaxed and very aware. We go into the subconscious and in your subconscious you have stored every experience you’ve ever been through. All of your memories are stored there and all of your core beliefs around your own self-worth your place in the world, about the world at large. 

All of these very, very poor, hugely influential beliefs are stored in your subconscious mind and how we shift those as we go back to the moment of their creation through the subconscious mind. Your mind is able to access those memories safely and easily with proper guidance, and we go back there and we find that part of you that younger you who didn’t feel loved or cared for or wanted, or enough or worthy or good enough. We find that younger and we gave them love and we explain to them that of course they are enough. We all are. Just because no mom or dad was busy at work, didn’t mean that they weren’t enough, didn’t mean that they weren’t loved and wanted, or just because their older brother was really good at sports doesn’t mean that they’re but they’re not also full of incredible gifts in this world that they could create and do and be whoever they want. 

So as the adult we have the compassion and understanding as the inner child. We are in a place where we don’t we can’t rationalize and we often get caught in the past with these beliefs, these painful experiences that form these beliefs. So we go back to that moment of the past as the loving adult and bring healing to the inner child and we remind them that you are enough. Of course you are anyone who has a child or a niece or nephew or you know someone in their life they care for, or even a fresh baby. You would look at their eyes, look into their eyes and you would never see that baby is not good enough. You would never say that baby is an impostor. It’s ridiculous, but yet we hold on to these beliefs from when we’re very young and we allow them to have massive influence in our well being and in our lives. These subconscious beliefs form the thoughts that form the behaviors and emotional responses that cause us the self sabotage that caused us to not go for what we really want in life. 

They cause us to play small and to keep ourselves small, but they don’t have to. It’s not necessary. So in order to overcome an impostor syndrome, we need to access the part of us that doesn’t believe we are enough or that we’re good enough. We need to go back to the inner child, we need to bring them healing, and that is how we step through. That’s how we step into our truth, the truth being that you are, you always have been, and you always will be more than enough, and there’s nothing that can change that. We never look at a tree in the forest and say it’s not good enough. We never look at our, our animal companion or dog or cat or something else and say they’re not good enough. That’s it’s preposterous and it’s equally preposterous to say that about ourselves or each other as human beings. We are all worthy of being here. We are all worthy of following our dreams and our passions, of figuring things out. So if this is something that you have struggled with, this feeling of being an impostor, of feeling afraid, you’re going to get found out and deemed unworthy of self sabotaging behavior, where you don’t take action to get that promotion. Follow that big win, even in a healthy relationship, if you start sabotaging that, if you find your relationship that isn’t loving and nurturing and kind, and these are all symptoms of a subconscious belief, that’s not true. And the good news is you 100% can update those beliefs and I can help you. So that leads me to next month, August, we have a new theme in the mind-body free community. 

It’s a membership community that you can join for 30 days free of charge and get access to four incredible healing classes. So we’re all about overcoming Imposter Syndrome in August, when you come and when you join, you can come and be part of this immersive, incredible healing group experience, where we go back and we heal up part of our younger self and we bring in love. We bring in the truth, knowing that we’re enough and we integrate that part of ourselves back into holiness with the rest of us, and that frees you to then have this incredible confidence and esteem, knowing that you’re enough exactly as you are, and from there you can create and do anything from a place of already feeling worthy.

Because knowing you’re worthy doesn’t make you less effective. It doesn’t take away an edge, I have heard some people say. Not feeling good enough gives me an edge to push more and do more. That’s bullshit. I’m sorry, but it is not feeling good enough stops you from seeing the deeper purpose and path in your own life. It stops you from moving forward on that path. You can end up grinding and grinding away and sabotaging left-right in the centre and then getting more, but still not feeling satisfied with what you’ve worked so hard to create. Because if you don’t feel like you, you are enough inside. Nothing outside of you is going to make you feel like it’s enough. Nothing outside of you is going to be enough period. The only way to feel enough to feel satiated, to feel fulfilled is inside. It’s looking at what’s going on within you and healing those parts of you that don’t feel whole. So that’s something that you would like to do so that you can create a life you live and actually enjoy it. Then come and join us. We are having our next healing transformation session on overcoming impostors syndrome on Thursday, August fourth, and it’s going to be an incredible experience. We have more classes throughout the month, Janet Lee is going to be teaching therapeutic Gong, which is all about healing the body, integrating what we experience and feeling more energy, more strength, more vitality, more clarity that she’s teaching every couple of weeks. And then I’m going to be doing a follow-up class integrating all of this incredible transformation that we go through. 

So I hope to see you there. The community is a place for people who are sensitive, for people who want authentic connection, people who want to grow exponentially, to heal and let go of all of these things that kept them. Being small, community is for you. If that’s what you’re looking for and you can learn more at mine, body free dot com, you can sign up for a free 30 day. Incredibly, you will also find a beautiful, heart centered community there and lots of healing resources. So I encourage you to come check it out, realize that you can do anything you want to do, you can be anyone you want to be, you can create a life. You love and actually enjoy it. We’ve seen lots of people who create abundance and wealth and who are successful, quote on quote, based on the idea of having lots of financial wealth. However, a lot of them, you can tell, are unhappy. They’re always trying to make more. They’re not being kind to other people. It’s all about making more and more and more and more, because they don’t believe inside that they are enough, and so we don’t have to partake in that insanity. We can find freedom from that trap.

And the way you do that is always inside. It starts in you, so I hope to see there. If you have any questions to me, a comment you can send me. You can find me on Ingram and facebook at your mind-body free, and I would love to hear from you. I’d love to hear impostor syndrome shows up in your life and I love you to think about what would be available to me if I didn’t have that. What would letting go impostor syndrome make available to me? How would my life be different? I’d love you to start thinking about that, because that’s going to start opening up a whole new, incredible world for you. Okay, so go to my body free! Dotcom sign up for the 30 day free trial. Mister for the event and if you can’t make it live, that is okay. You can watch the replay within the community, but you have to join the community to access the replay. I can’t wait to see you there. It’s going to be incredible and together, let’s grow, evolve and realize our limitless potential.Learn more about our healing community for highly sensitive people here.

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23- Abundance

Episode 23 Create Abundance
Create Abundance Abby Taylor


In episode 23: Create Abundance, I share my journey of releasing my abundance blocks and the incredible changes this created in my life. I also share how I did it, how you can get started, and a FREE event coming up on July 9th!

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Looking for more support?
Learn more about our healing community for highly sensitive people here.


Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:01) Hello. Welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I help highly sensitive people heal in mind, body, and spirit so they can connect with their purpose and share the gifts that are so needed in this world. And I’m here to talk to you today about abundance, money, wealth, the energy of it, the flow of it, or the lack thereof. Money and abundance are concepts on the other side of scarcity. And it’s such a prevalent thing that I see in the world, and especially in communities, among artists, and healers. It can be this starving artist mindset or starving monk mindset. And I’ve been through that when I grew up. I’ve done a lot of work on this.

Abby (00:00:55) Growing up for me, I inherited all kinds of limiting beliefs around money. Like there’s never enough and just a lot of fear around, I don’t know what to do. We don’t have enough. It’s never going to be enough. Just a lot of feelings of insecurity around that. And so I grew up with that belief and I made just enough for myself. I may have just enough to get by, but never too much or more than enough. And sometimes I felt like not enough, even though they’re always actually enough. And eventually, I was doing some journeying and connecting with my purpose, my future self, and what I wanted to create in the world, the life that I wanted to have. So I had written out this life that I wanted for myself, and as I was looking at it, I realized I’m going to have to make more money to create this life.

Abby (00:01:55) And to make more money, I’m going to have to do some work on this. I’m going to have to do some inner work because the outer world is a reflection of the inner world. And so as I continued doing more training and building out my skills with hypnotherapy and other techniques and tools, something that I focused on to heal within myself was my blocks to abundance, because it got to a point where it was stressful, where I was feeling limited in doing the training that I wanted to do and traveling to places I wanted to go and upgrading my kitchen, living in a part of the city that I felt safe and comfortable in and inspired in.

Abby (00:02:40) I wanted to do all of that, but I felt restricted by money. So I did some work on it. I received some hypnotherapy sessions. I went through this immersive course where I listen to these recordings to clear away abundance blocks, and I listen to these sorts of recordings for about eight months. And I would go to bed and I put the recording on. I would close my eyes and I would just clear and clean and clear so much, so many blocks that I had and my body would shake. Sometimes tears streamed down my cheeks and I was just part of the release, just energetically letting it go from not only my subconscious mind but also from my body. And so when I did that, things started changing, my business started growing, I started having these amazing referrals coming in and it gave me the momentum to then do more work in my business, to then be more visible.

Abby (00:03:43) It just gave me a sense of confidence and esteem that I needed at that time to build my practice. And with that, more and more things started changing and leading to today where I’m teaching people to become healers. I have a coach training program, and I have a membership program where people can come and heal, which I’m excited to speak about later. But a lot has changed. We moved my husband and me and our dogs to a part of the city that is beautiful. That is right next to a huge forest, which is exactly what we wanted to be near nature. And now we can walk into those forests every day. It is right across the street. We live in a home that we love. It’s a beautiful home and I feel inspired every time I wake up in it.

Abby (00:04:32) And I love having friends and family fill it up. So life is very different now and I’m grateful that I did that work to clear away those abundance blocks because on the other side of those blocks is infinite possibility, where anything is possible, where I learned how to create, what I want to manifest, what I want in my life, and to let go of what I don’t want. So I do believe that as we let go of those limiting beliefs and energetic blocks from our mind and body and spirit and open up to receive the abundance around us and realize the abundance that flows within us and through us and from us, then we are able to not only be happier and live a life that feels more aligned with our values and joys. But I feel we’re also able to be of greater service.

Abby (00:05:33) And this one’s important to me because I’m a healer and I want to help a lot of beings in this world while I’m here. And I know that for me, the more that abundance that flows into my life, the more that I can then support and be in service. It enables me access to resources and coaches and education that then allows me to grow my practice and help others in an even bigger way and support even more people. So it’s a really beautiful thing. It’s a flow in and a flow out. Just like everything in life. With every inhale, there is an exhale with every gift that we also receive. And some people are good at giving, and some people are good at receiving, but it needs to go back and forth. It needs to be a flow. And that’s the balance that the harmony that we come into. And abundance is a part of that and money is a part of that, too.

Abby (00:06:31) Money and energy. It’s a form of energy, and it’s the kind of relationship that we have with it. So if you think about money as a person, what kind of relationship do you have with money? Is it something that you think about? Is it something that you worry about? Is it something that you think is the root of all evil or never around enough? I need to grab, hold onto it and just really try to grasp it. Do you think about money if a person wouldn’t want to hang out with you? You know, if you take it out to dinner, are you cool? Are you needy? Are you standoffish? Are you resentful? What’s that relationship like? If you want to have more of that relationship if you want them to be money, to be more present in your life. We want it to be a happy, beautiful relationship based on understanding and appreciation.

Abby (00:07:29) If your relationship with money is not like that, hey, no judgment I. It wasn’t for me for most of my life. If you have some baggage around it, then I encourage you to look at that, to explore what are the thoughts that come up when I think about money. And you can write them down. Writing down thoughts is a great way to bring them into conscious awareness as well as get them out of your head. Sometimes just becoming aware of it is enough for it to dissolve, but it’s also a great step for beginning to release that. Some thoughts that can, you know, fly around with money is there’s never enough. It’s not available to me. Everyone else can make it, but I can’t. I’m not good enough, not worthy of receiving it. Money is the root of all evil.

Abby (00:08:20) It’s ego. It’s vain. It’s not good to want or care about money or think about money. People who have money are mean and bad. Oh, well, that’s why you think. Why would you ever want to do that? Right. So it’s just some thoughts that can fly around as far as beliefs and limiting beliefs and mindsets around money can be. This is a great space to begin getting awareness, and then we want to question those thoughts. Well, is it true that people that make money or bad can think of some good people to be Melinda Gates, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation? They’re doing some cool stuff. You know, maybe you can think of some other different people. Warren Buffett, incredible philanthropist, and the richest man in the world began to challenge those beliefs.

Abby (00:09:10) Is it true that there’s never enough? I mean, it seems like there’s a lot of money in the world. Hmm. Interesting. Look at those beliefs. Question them, bring them onto paper, bring them into your conscious awareness so that you can then question them. Otherwise, they just hang out in the subconscious mind. And even though we’re not thinking about them or aware of them, they really kind of run the show as far as our behaviors and feelings go. So if we have beliefs like that in the background, in our subconscious mind, they will actually cause us in ways to behave, that can self-sabotage, that cannot take action on the things that we kind of really want. It can cause us to hold ourselves back. And if you ever wonder why, why is it I’m always broke or why is it there’s never enough? Or How did I end up in this situation?

Abby (00:10:05) Again, I’m going to tell you, my friend, it is those subconscious beliefs. And the good news is that you can 100% clear and release them and step into empowering, freeing, expansive, abundant beliefs. I did. Lots of people do. You can do it. And if you would like some support with that, we have an event coming up in the mind-body free community. So I’m going to switch gears for a moment and I’m going to come back to that. So I want to tell you about the mind body free community. So it is a membership community that we have just launched and I’m so excited to share this with you throughout July. You can sign up to receive a free trial for 30 whole days, 30 whole days. That means you’re going to get access to four live events. Normally we do one event a week, but because last weekend was a holiday weekend, we have two back-to-back with me and then Jeanette Lee, who is going to be teaching qigong.

Abby (00:11:11) The mind-body free community is a place for highly sensitive people to come together to heal and mind body, and spirit with each other and discover our limitless potential. It is a beautiful, heart-centered space. We have weekly, live and recorded classes in case you can’t make it live. And there are healing resources there. There’s video exercises and hypnotherapy and shamanic journeys, audio recordings you can listen to, to grow and heal. And there are beautiful people there. If you would like to join, you can go to Mind-Body Free. Dot com. You can learn more about it. You can sign up there. And each month we have a new theme and the classes are going to be based around that theme. So July. Guess what an abundance month is?

Abby (00:12:07) And we’re going to be doing some amazing work on clearing away the limiting beliefs that held you back, stepping into the energy of abundance, the energy of money, transforming that to be a beautiful, liberating relationship so that you can stop feeling held back by money so that you can let go of money. Stress takes up so much bandwidth to be worrying and thinking about and stressing about money. And it’s not necessary. And when you’re thinking stressful, worrisome thoughts, that’s what you’re putting out to the world. That’s what you’re manifesting more of. So when you learn how to let those go, you start putting different things out to them, out into the world, and different things start coming back to you. So our abundance class, the first class, is coming up on Saturday, July 9th, and it’s going to be at 9:30 a.m. Mountain Daylight Time, if you can make it live.

Abby (00:13:03) Amazing. It’s going to be very powerful if you can’t still come to join the community and you can watch the record and you can still get an incredible full immersive experience that way, too. And the next day, because it’s going to be a special double event weekend, Jeanette Lee will be teaching qigong. She teaches a very therapeutic healing form of qigong that’s healing for the body. It helps you regain your energy, your sense of well-being, your sense of strength and wellness. So she teaches every other Sunday at 10:30 a.m. Mountain Time. And again, those classes are recorded. If you come in, you come in live. She’s really great at kind of tailoring things to what people need, so she’ll check in energetically with each student, find out where they’re at, and then she’ll really bring what’s needed most to that class.

Abby (00:13:57) So amazing, amazing value, you guys. And then I’m going to be teaching the following week. It’s going to be an integration call. When we come back, we do some more clearing and sharing about what kind of things came up around abundance. And we do some really beautiful work that will help you connect in the community. I’m so, so excited about this. I’m excited about helping you guys create more abundance in your life and let go of financial stress and worries. And I’m excited for you to be able to join this beautiful, heart centered community of highly sensitive people, of intuitive people, you know. And as highly sensitive people, we are wired differently. 20% of the population in humans and a bunch of other different species are nervous.

Abby (00:14:48) The system is wired differently where we take in more information in our nervous system and we’re more sensitive, which is a blessing. It means we have a heightened sense of awareness and when we learn how to navigate it, it can be a really powerful, beautiful thing. If you are somebody who works with people as a healer or teacher or guide in some way, or if you are a leader or a visionary or a writer, you have this ability to tap into an energetic flow of profound wisdom. And a lot of the only downside is that because we’re sensitive, we also take on more stuff, all the energy and the frenetic energy and chaos in the world, and that can be overwhelming and other people’s emotions and can be a lot.

Abby (00:15:37) So it’s really important as highly sensitive people to learn how to navigate this and release that from our nervous systems so that we can hear that inner wisdom and allow it to come through. So this is a community, guys, for you. It’s a community for highly sensitive people for RSPs to come together and heal and discover our superpowers because the world needs a lot of sensitive people. The world needs more healers, more visionaries, more creatives, because there’s messages and wisdom that wants to come through you at this time in the world where so much is changing and people are looking for guidance and support, abundance is happening all through the month of July. It is going to be amazing and amazingly, you can sign up for free for 30 whole days, only for the month of July.

Abby (00:16:34) So if you want to be a part of it, go to You can learn more about how it all works. You can click on join and you can sign up for a whole. And I would love to see you in class. I would love to support you and grow with you and have your energy part of our community. So thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions, you can reach out. I’m on Instagram and Facebook at your mind-body free and I would love to see you there. Wishing you endless abundance and infinite possibilities. Thank you so much. Talk next time.


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22-Renate Mueller

Episode 22 Renate Sophia Muller How to Launch Your Soulful Podcast
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Renate Sophia Mueller

Renate Sophia Mueller is a Soulful Podcast Mentor, Energy Healer and Feminine Leadership Coach. She’s helping spiritual and heart centered women find their authentic voice and unleash their message with the world via a podcast, so they can make a massive impact and become a thought leader.

Connect with Renate:
Instagram: @renatesophiamueller

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:01) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and I’m so excited to have Renate Muller here. She is a soulful podcast mentor, an energy healer, and a feminine leadership coach. She’s helping spiritual and heart-centered women to find their authentic voice and unleash their message with the world via a podcast so they can make a massive impact and become thought leaders. I’m so, so happy to see more women stepping up and to see you empowering women’s voices. I feel like that’s so needed right now with this kind of the divine feminine essence that’s being called to come back and kind of bring the world into greater balance. And I’m just so thrilled to get to speak to you. So thank you so much for being here.

Renate (00:00:47) Rene Thank you so much. Abigail Yeah, I’m excited to be here and I can’t wait for where our conversation will go.

Abby (00:00:57) I know infinite possibilities. We were talking, we just realized. I just realize we went to the same little town in India and Hrishikesh to do our yoga teacher’s training. And you’re in Australia, but you spent some time in Revelstoke and Canada and it’s like, Oh, it’s such a small world that we live in. You just never know.

Renate (00:01:15). Yeah. I mean, what a coincidence that you know, the other end of the world right now. I’m in Australia, but we can connect with you. Yeah.

Abby (00:01:25) It’s magical. We live in the future. I love. So can you tell me a little bit? You’re a healer and you’re a podcasting mentor. Can you tell me a little bit about your journey of coming into this world of healing and empowerment?

Renate (00:01:40) Yes, for sure. So it’s always a funny question for me because I have no idea where to start sometimes. Because I kind of work.

Abby (00:01:49) Likes to tell the whole story. So if I’m going a bit too long, just let me know. Go for it.

Renate (00:01:55) Okay, perfect. So let’s say I go back even to my high school. I was a highly sensitive child. I always struggled with speaking my true fear, speaking up. I was like a little mouse. And I just wanted nobody to notice me at all. So I was trying to hide for almost my entire life. And then I think when I finished high school I traveled to New Zealand, so I kind of stepped out of my comfort zone. And when I started traveling and seeing the world I started to realize, wow, you know, there’s so much out there. And I became a bit more confident within myself because I feel like traveling really sets you up for the world out there and you just become mature in a way and you adapt quickly to difficult situations.

Renate (00:03:05) And then I was working as a flight attendant, so I was trying to get into uni and I didn’t get accepted at any university, and yeah, in Germany. And that was really surprising for me because all of my friends went to high school, went to university, I mean, and I just didn’t get accepted and I was wondering what, what’s going on? And I was applying for social work. And back then I wasn’t aware that so many people wanted to study social work and become social workers. So yeah, it was just so difficult to get into any university. So I thought, okay, I’m kind of like a loser in a way, you know, I can’t go to university, although I try to.

Renate (00:03:58) And for some reason that kind of. And, you know, I became just really low in myself and I just thought, okay, I would just go on with traveling, I guess because that’s what I love to do. And then I applied for some flight attendant jobs and I became a flight attendant eventually. And then I traveled the world for 1 to 2 years. But then I realized, okay, traveling the world is still not my thing. It’s not my biggest purpose in life. I was asking myself, what is the purpose of my life? And I just felt like doing the same thing over and over again. It didn’t suit me and my personality and I was always really more passionate.

Renate (00:04:57) I was always a really big thinker and I just thought, Oh no, I want to kind of change the world in some sort of way. And then I, I think 2018, beginning of 2018, I hit rock bottom and I just, you know, I came back from a long-distance flight and I was so tired, so exhausted. I didn’t want to have anyone around me anymore because I always had so many people on my flights. And it was just so, so exhausting. So really let me almost burn out. And I didn’t really realize what burnout was back then, so I just kept going. But deep within me, I knew I can’t go on with this forever.

Renate (00:05:47) And I did some yoga to balance me out. I did meditation back then, and that always helped me to connect with my spirit, with myself. And then I had this crazy idea What about becoming a yoga teacher? And that was adventurous, fought for me because I thought, How can I become a yoga teacher? I just did yoga for a couple of years and now I want to become a yoga teacher. And at first, I thought, Oh, it’s insane to do that and just quit my secure job in Germany. But then this fort became bigger and bigger and bigger and, I just quit my job. And I think it was in June. I quit my job and then I booked my flights to Rishikesh, India. And yeah, I went on this journey to India and did this yoga teacher training.

Renate (00:06:52) And India is so different from Germany. So for me, that was another, you know, stepping out of my comfort zone and really finding myself again. And yeah, India as well, was leveling me up in every yeah, every possible corner of myself in a way. And I became a different person on an emotional level, on a mental level, on a physical level. And then I find that I have healing abilities. And I was yeah, I didn’t know about that. I was always a natural healer and someone told me that I was doing a Reiki course in Canada then and I had a healing course. So yeah, it was for me like, Oh my God, this is a whole different world, the healing world, and healing other people.

Renate (00:07:56) And combining that with yoga, yeah, it was just perfect. And then yeah, I started my podcast when I was in Canada actually, so that was after my yoga teacher training. I started a podcast and it was another crazy thing where for who am I to do this? But another friend of mine did it and I was like, oh, I’m permitting myself now to do it. So I just did it anyway. And here I am right now, coaching people now how to do their podcast, I think four years later, and I actually can’t believe to say that to you. But yeah, I’m a podcasting mentor now and I’m a healer and I’m empowering women to do the same. So yeah.

Abby (00:08:47) So I love your story. I love that. And I can relate to so many things and I think a lot of the listeners will too. You know, when you said that when you were in school, like being highly sensitive like that, was that that term of highly sensitive people or I call them empaths, where it’s like 20% of the population, are wired differently. We just take on more in our nervous system. And I feel like it’s so easy to be overwhelmed as a highly sensitive and but on the flip side siders side of that is these gifts that we have like these naturally born healers and leaders and visionaries because we can tune into the subtle world as long as we can figure out how to tap into those gifts.

Abby (00:09:31) So and it’s I love that you dared to go from, like you describe, feeling like a mouse to go out and travel the world. And what an incredible difference that made. And I can 100% relate to that, just being so transformative because you have to problem-solve every day. There’s there is no comfort a comfortable little bubble when you’re traveling and there’s all of these new cultures and all these new, beautiful experiences and beautiful people. So it’s so phenomenal for growth. And I’m curious, was it scary for you to take that leap into beginning to go out and see the world and like embarking on that journey? What was that like?

Renate (00:10:16) Yeah, it was. You know, before I went on my travels, I had no idea. I had no idea what the world looks like, what other cultures are like, and that you can live a different life. So in Germany, we have a lot of structure and you know, you just go to university after your high school and then maybe you go on travels while you’re working and building a family. So there’s not a lot of space for creativity and doing things a bit differently. And I was always a person. I was so interested in, you know, different cultures and, you know, just getting out of your bubble and expanding yourself. So I was always trying to search for new ways of finding a new version of myself and finding new pathways which are not common. So I always wanted to be different. And it’s really interesting. I’m not sure if you know about human design the d if you’re into human design.

Abby (00:11:35) Oh, I love human design. I’m a is a projector I think. Yeah, yeah, I love human design.

Renate (00:11:43)
Renate: It seems like I actually think I found out about human design last year and I, someone read my profile and just made total sense. So I’m a manifesting generator. I’m a warm, multi-passionate being. And the thing is that lly born to always change my course, always to change the direction of my life, and not to be the same person that I used to be. And also in my business, I had to learn that too, like allowing myself to know to do different kinds of coaching and to integrate all of my self, all my passions in one business. And this is my niche. So sorry. Coming back to your question and I think just, you know, getting to know me more through my travels just helped me so much in my future.

Renate (00:12:45) And I think I can recommend that everyone if you kind of want to maybe change the direction of your life or you want to find yourself, you don’t know what to do. I recommend getting out of your comfort zone traveling. And I was in so many difficult situations because I feel like the universe throws you into challenging moments that you are here to solve. And when you solve them, you’re like, Oh my God. It was not that difficult. It was not that hard. And then you become more resilient and then then you just really create a really strong foundation for yourself. You create a very strong foundation.

Renate (00:13:31) You know, when you’re a woman, I feel like, especially when you are highly sensitive, you just want to be in your own bubble time and you want to hide and you don’t want to speak up. So, you know, getting out of your comfort zone and traveling and talking to different kinds of people and maybe speaking a different language, learning a new language, it just helps you so much with your confidence and your resilience. And it just I think it opens up new doors that, you know, you wouldn’t be the same person. You’re just not the same person any more than you were before. And then it just, you know, it creates a new life for you.

Abby (00:14:18) I love that. I love that. I was thinking back to you mentioned you were so disappointed that you didn’t get into university. And it’s funny, those things were you know, someone had said once were the saying where, you know, you didn’t get what you want, but it’s because the universe is something better planned. It’s like they don’t always see that perspective at the moment but in the greater picture. It’s interesting to look back and realize, Oh if I had gone, I would have been on a totally different path for you. Who knows where you would be right now? So it’s so cool to see what feels like, you know, does not feel like a blessing at a time. At the time can become that.

Renate (00:14:58) Yeah, no, it doesn’t feel like that at all. You’re just like, why? Why, why on earth does the universe put me down as a really difficult situation? Yeah, you know, it was so funny because of two months. Ago. It was I was put, I think, on purpose and in one of the most difficult situations. I’m not sure if you heard about the flooding in Australia, but we were staying at a rainforest retreat behind Mullumbimby and Mullumbimby is a hip place on the east coast of Australia and we went a rain forest and after one week of staying there it started to rain and we just thought, oh, it’s the wet season, you know, it’s normal that we get flooded in, you know, but it didn’t stop raining for an entire week and then it started to rain like crazy, like really, really hard rain.

Renate (00:15:56) It didn’t stop overnight and we become a bit anxious. We’re like, Is that normal? You know, we never experienced something like that before. And then I think it happened overnight that we had a power cut. We had no electricity for a couple of days, no Internet connection, and we even had a water shortage. The roads into town were all damaged and we were put in the situation, I believe, for reasons to become stronger, to become more resilient. But back then I was just like, why is this happening to us? Do you know? And then 300 meters down the road, there was a landslide and it took a person’s life away. And we’re like, Oh my God, that’s a natural disaster.

Renate (00:16:47) And literally and we’re like, you know, my part. And I was just like always wondering, why did we choose to come here? Because we do believe, you know, when you practice a lot of spiritual, spiritual practices or when you’re connected to source, you do become conscious of every action you do and of every person you meet. And you just realize that everything is connected really on this earth. And I do believe that and that it is sometimes our choice to that we create those situations for us. But as you said before, sometimes we think, you know, why is this happening to us? And it feels like hell on earth at that time.

Renate (00:17:37) And that’s so interesting because I feel like because I traveled so much in my life and I already had so many challenging moments in my life that I was already quite strong within me and I knew how to navigate myself through this really difficult situation of like staying calm, trusting in myself and, you know, really trying to be just this mountain to be present within me and to realize, alright, this bill, this too shall pass, it will pass and everything will be alright. And I was just so grateful that we were safe, that nothing happened to us. And luckily we lived in a community so we were all helping each other out. And it was incredible because the people from the Valley were all helping each other out. People brought us food from town, they brought us petrol. It was. It was mind-blowing. That was like humanity. Oh, my God. It was so, like?

Renate (00:18:49) I had tears In my eye. It was just wow. It was just so beautiful how people can work together in a crisis. And sometimes that needs to happen. A crisis needs to happen for us to come together and to make build new pathways. Yeah.

Abby (00:19:13) Yeah. That’s so beautiful. I couldn’t agree more. And it’s what I’m hearing is a couple of things. One, it sounds like resilience and the confidence that comes from that is a muscle, one that we gain by putting ourselves in these situations that are outside of our control. So we have to think on our feet and figure things out. And every time we do that, we get a little stronger, a little more confident in our ability to do that. And I love what you said, too, about, you know, why is this happening? But there is a reason for why. There’s always some reason and that coming together in community, I feel like I can relate a lot.

Abby (00:19:51) I’ve been doing a lot of personal healing and when I was younger I had all my walls built up to protect my heart. No one shall Pass. I was like Gandalf with a staff. That’s like, what? But then layer by layer, life found Way to help me break it down. And I had this like this illness or these physical issues I was having. And there was one time on the bus when I just passed out and I just prayed. I’m like, Oh, my God, it’s please, I don’t know what to do. And then before I knew what someone was saying, Hey, are you okay?

Abby (00:20:30) Somebody else was bringing me pop and some candy, and someone else was like rubbing this, like, pain medication on my face. And the Whole bus came together. To help this total stranger and remind you of what you’re saying. This community coming together, it’s just people can be really, truly amazing. And I think that in our hearts, we all are. It’s just given this opportunity to knock down the walls of this normal trance-like state that we can find ourselves in and remember what’s important, you know, taking care of each other. It’s such a beautiful thing to experience that.

Renate (00:21:04) Yeah. And it opened my eyes to what’s possible in the future. And, you know, I’m really about this new earth leadership and building a new Earth sometimes because it requires crisis, you know, otherwise, we won’t change anything. It just opened. Yeah, it opened my eyes that wow, you know, what’s happened was horrible was terrific and but people really, they stood together and help each other out. And then even in the town, they were opening up a healing space for people who are traumatized from this experience. And they offered free services.

Renate (00:21:49) And I was like, Oh my God, you know, how beautiful is this world? Because sometimes we just think that everyone is so egoistic and everyone is just thinking of themselves and nobody has a heart anymore. And this is just not true. I do believe that we all have a wonderful heart within us and sometimes, yeah, we build these walls around us because we think it’s not safe to be in this world. After all, we were hurt in the past, because of our trauma, because of the things that we have experienced, and based on that, we judge other people. But who are we to judge others? And it all starts with ourselves first. So to build also new earth, a new world, we have to establish ourselves first and create this new earth within us. So yeah.

Abby (00:22:54) I love that. Can you tell me more about New Earth leadership? What does that mean to you?

Renate (00:23:00) Yeah. So for me, new leadership means that we are not doing the things we used to do anymore. We kind of destroying the old ways of thinking, the old patterns, the Patrick patriarchy, I hope I pronounce it right of, you know this when people are just so into consuming and they all think it’s about materialism and buying new stuff, and I believe it, you know, to create a new earth, a new world is about, you know, looking within and healing yourself first, healing your wounds and stop hurting other people with your actions, with your force. Because what’s happening in the world and even right now, as we can see with we still having a war on earth, we’re still fighting each other.

Renate (00:24:10) We’re still kind of like little children. And this is all because we haven’t looked at our wounds. We haven’t looked at our traumas. We haven’t always looked at other leaders to lead us. And I think this is one of the mistakes that we are doing that we have done, that we’re always looking out for the answers to, always looking up for other people to lead us. But if you are stepping away from this whole old paradigm and stepping into a new way of thinking of like, wow, okay, I have everything in my control. I am the creator of my own life.

Renate (00:24:50) And when you just take self-responsibility for your actions, when you realize, wow, I chose this right now, I created this situation right now, and you, you really open your eyes more about, oh my God, when I say this to this person right now I have them and maybe traumatized. The rest of their life. So just it is about becoming more conscious. I do believe in this new earth movement. It is. It is it can be quite simple. And you can break it down to the foundation of becoming as conscious as possible as you can be as present as possible with all your thoughts. Your actions were everything you put out there. And when you worked on yourself, when you healed your wounds, you just you you know, you just are a different person. Your cells are changing and you are changing your vibration.

Renate (00:25:53) when you change your vibration, you do help others around you to change their energy and to change their vibration as well. And then you permit them to become a leader as well because when you can do it, others can do it as well. So it’s more about the focus within yourself, your consciousness, and then starting to create something that you want to see in this world. Maybe if you want to become a coach, become a yoga teacher, and maybe you just, you know, you stay in your job, but you become the most conscious person. You become the best person on this earth to do this job and you help others to do the same. So this is for me, all this new leadership. And I think when sometimes people hear that are like, what is this real? But it is quite simple. It’s just a shift in consciousness. Yeah, I hope that makes sense.

Abby (00:26:58) makes perfect sense. It’s beautiful. I kind of see it as like I hear that as like becoming a leader within yourself and letting it extend forward from there. And just this kind of radical ownership for you and me, I agree. You know, it’s there’s so much trauma around the world and there’s so much war that’s an extension of that, this unresolved pain. And I feel like there’s a calling for humanity to heal it like I see it coming out and all different kinds of themes in the media and just all of these concepts of healing trauma. And it’s just like the I think the subconscious collective psyche is asking for that. It’s time, especially with the pandemic and so many people having so much solitary time, having had so much solitary time with themselves.

Abby (00:27:48) A friend of mine had said, you know, going inward and being alone is a shamanic journey. And if you’re not sure how to navigate that, it can be really scary. But it can you can start facing all of these things that were hiding in the background that we didn’t, you know, we didn’t know were there. I’ll start showing up. So I almost feel like healing the trauma is like the entry point to that place of feeling powerful again. So, so much trauma happens when we’re young and we feel powerless to do anything about it. Being a healer yourself, what is your take on that?

Renate (00:28:29) So you mean healing the trauma? Sorry, I. The question.

Abby (00:28:34) Yeah. So how do you feel? The sense of empowerment and feeling capable and confident coincides with healing your wounds or getting help having someone help you heal your wounds?

Renate (00:28:49) Yeah. So. I think when you’re just by yourself, I think I just know that really from my own life. I think it’s also really a German way of doing things that you just want to solve everything by ourself and we want to heal ourselves first. We don’t want that someone else can help us to heal or to look into our past and stuff.

Abby (00:29:15) That’s very Canadian, too.

Renate (00:29:22) Well, I actually think that most people operate in the system. Like, I just can do it by myself. And it’s just really it comes actually from quite an ego space to think like I can do everything by myself. But also, you know, we were maybe so hurt from our past that we don’t want to let anyone into our lives and to, you know, we are really afraid to be vulnerable and to be seen. And we are so afraid to be vulnerable to be seen because we are afraid of being not liked anymore to being abandoned. And we have to look here also into this really deep fear that we have and these deep fears, those shadow sides, they can take control of your own life and they can stop you from your best possible life.

Renate (00:30:21) So I do believe in getting help and end to surrender into like, oh, my God, I can’t do this by myself. I do need someone else who, you know, we need another perspective. We need someone else. You can look at us not from this traumatized space or not even from our family perspective. We have to you know, we have to have someone you can look just, you know, of just like really innocent being in front of them. And we are innocent. You know this is our natural state. We are very pure beings, but we sometimes put so many layers on ourselves to protect ourselves, to protect our hearts. And when I started to start in 2018 before I went to my yoga course, I started a self-help course to look more within and heal more wounds.

Renate (00:31:26) And then I realized that was the best decision of my life ever. It was life-changing because I realized, oh, my God, I created all those situations and someone else, you know, I needed another perspective. And then I just, you know, I, I hired coaches my whole life and they just really helped me to empower myself. And I think sometimes we do need other people. Yeah.

Abby (00:31:57) Oh, my God. I could not agree more. I’m such a believer and receiving help. I don’t think there’s a single being on this planet that doesn’t work with someone else. We all are supported in so many ways by each other, directly or indirectly. And I feel like, yeah, we can get so caught in our own stories and pains to have somebody like a calm guide from the outside looking in. You can just take our hand and say, Hey, let’s, let’s go, let’s walk through this. It’s so, so transformative. I’ll probably work with coaches and healers for the rest of my life.

Renate (00:32:32) Yes. Because we do need them. You know, like if we just think we can do it all by ourselves, then again, it’s still in this old way of thinking, the old oh paradigm of like, oh, no, you know, it’s kind of like your inner child. It’s like, no, I can do it by myself.

Abby (00:32:51) And yeah, totally, you know, I do my way.

Renate (00:32:59) And, you know, just me as leadership. It is feminine. It comes from this divine feminine space like a community. And we can do this together. And by creating this new earth together, it’s, you know, you just feel so much more held and seen and you realize that, oh, my gosh, like it is safe to be seen. And I think that’s what we all come back to the safety within ourselves. Because if we can feel safe and we have this foundation within us, then, you know, anything can happen in the outside world, but we can stand still because we have this safety within ourselves and we’re like, Oh no, I’m okay right now, and no matter what happens, I will be okay. Yeah.

Abby (00:33:49) Yeah. That’s beautiful. And I feel like. For women, especially because throughout history we didn’t get to have a lot of voice and we didn’t get to be seen. And so it’s just so much deconditioning and ancestral deconditioning and collective deconditioning. Do you find that when you are coaching, when you’re doing your podcast coaching as well, do you see that a lot of this kind of fear of being seen?

Renate (00:34:17) Yeah, it’s the most common fear actually behind everything. So it’s really interesting because a lot of women come into my life and already established a business. But one of the biggest fears, I mean, they all say, is technology. But at the end of the day, it is the fear of being seen off, you know, and also of being rejected as well when they when they are seen. And I think this is such a common fear. I think that every woman has that when we speak up. And I think it is because of our conditioning, it’s because of what happened to women in the past, of our generational traumas, that we are not feeling safe to speak our truth because we feel like if we speak our thoughts right now, we are not safe. You’re getting abandoned. You know, and it also has it’s connected to that. We even got burned because people thought we were witches.

Abby (00:35:20) And been there in a past life. That wasn’t fun.

Renate (00:35:24) Wasn’t at all. And the thing. Is that it is still stored in our bodies and a lot of people are not aware of this. So, you know, as women we do we do have to heal a lot of these ancestral traumas and generational traumas also from the war times. And it’s just like getting activated in our bodies. And I think, yeah, especially right now too, with the war in Ukraine that, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I fought wars over and my grandparents lived in the wartime. But, you know, it still gets activated within them when they hear about the war in Ukraine and they get really, really anxious and traumatized again.

Abby (00:36:08) Yeah The pain still lives inside us. It’s in the body and the psyche and the spirit. It’s like the triggering of something that we’ve been through. We see it a lot when I work with women healers to something called the Witch Wound, like from the times when women were born, burned. And so a lot of people who have this, like, desire to heal in whatever way that is, it can be just physically terrifying, like induce a fight or flight response. So what do you find is the best way of overcoming that? Like, how do you help women move through that?

Renate (00:36:51) Yeah. So I think, first of all, it’s so important to regulate your nervous system. I think that’s one of the foundations of everything because if you don’t have a regulate the nervous system, you don’t know how to get out of this fight and flight response. And it is just really hard to, you know, to create a business even or to stay calm and situations. And because any little thing can be triggering for you and you just get in this race mode again. So by there are so many different things you can do to regulate your nervous system. I found Breathwork was super, super healing for me. It was one of the best ways to get out of my head, and back into my body. And yeah, it is amazing. And I have to say cold therapy as well. I love cold therapy. I started in Canada.

Abby (00:37:52) Because it was so cold. Oh, my God, that’s my excuse. Like, nobody in Canada is cold therapy. It’s good for you. Yeah, it’s awesome.

Renate (00:38:03) It was. It was so cold. I remember I was going into the Canadian legs and it was freezing. Oh, my God. Reasoning. I was like. I was screaming at the beginning because.

Abby (00:38:13) It was so much fun. Yeah, I believe it. I would be too so bad.

Renate (00:38:19) But then, I don’t know. I just get addicted to this feeling in my body because I never felt like that before. I mean, I did yoga for most of my life and I think that’s such a good mindfulness practice. But cold therapy is just like, oh, my God, you just, you know, you kind of stay in this hot water and you’re like, oh, my God, you think you’re going to die? But then you realize, ah, when you go out, it’s fine. I’m okay.

Renate (00:38:50) And it’s just. Yeah, it’s. Just a really good practice for your nervous system. I found, of course, not to overdo it because I overdid it a little bit at the beginning too, and then I just stayed cold for the rest of the day and I don’t recommend that. So know your limits as well. That is important. But yeah, really, you know, these practices of being mindful also with your speech and what you’re saying, what you’re thinking about yourself, how you talk. And I think that can change a lot when you realize what kind of things you’re saying and then you try to yeah, you changing your mindset here that you are safe to speak and you can practice that by recording yourself.

Renate (00:39:46) And I have women to start to on podcasts because I found this is one of the best ways to become confident with your speech, to become confident with yourself because you don’t have to show your face. A lot of people are terrified by that. And that’s what I found, too. You know, you just have to put yourself in front of this microphone and nobody has to know how many times it takes you to record yourself at the beginning. But yeah, that helps me. And I think also chanting mantras helped me help me the most to activate my voice and to come out of my head and back into my body.

Renate (00:40:34) Those, you know, when you chant those mantras, they come from ancient India, and they. I carry this sacred sound and it changes your cells. And it’s just it’s such a beautiful feeling when you go to kilotons when you have the chance to go to town somewhere in your local town and your local city. And it is just really, really amazing. I’m going to get myself a harmonium to practice more singing and to activate my voice even more. And yeah, I think, yeah, first of all, it’s the foundation about yourself and then getting into practices. Yeah.

Abby (00:41:23) That’s beautiful. I went to a couple of curtains recently and it is there’s so much power in just tuning in with the frequency and this ancient-like meaning and sounds coming together. And I love what you said about Breathwork. I have a friend on the previous episode we talked about Breathwork and cold therapy. I should connect you with her.

Renate (00:41:42) Both and so transformative. And what I love about that and when you said building the foundation with the nervous system because I feel like things like Breathwork and things like cold therapy, help us face and release the trauma stored in the nervous system. And we can’t think our way out of that. We have to feel our way through it, I believe, anyway.

Abby (00:42:07). Yeah. You have to feel, you know, and I think that’s what women are resisting because, you know, we’ve been told in our past, don’t cry anymore. No, no, no, no, no, don’t, don’t scream. Don’t do anything. So what I did, was I just kept quiet when I felt really angry within myself. I, you know, I didn’t cry at all. And then when I became much more conscious about myself and also when I became a healer, I noticed how much more I cried. And I was like, Why do I cry now? But then I realize it’s healing. Now I’m back to myself and I realized that crying is beautiful and there’s nothing wrong with that. And yeah, really getting in touch with your feelings and also I think dancing. I think, yeah, that’s something that I want to say as well. Some embodiment practicing practices like dancing can also really help to release your emotions. That did a lot for me as well.

Renate (00:43:18)  I love dancing so much. Yeah, and I love crying. I feel so alive. It’s like.

Abby (00:43:22) Oh, I found some.

Renate (00:43:24) Tears. They get to be expressed.

Abby (00:43:26)  Thank goodness I feel so good.

Renate (00:43:29) So the expressions from your soul, you know, it’s your you know, it’s like a cleansing of the soul. We just think it’s bad and we just change ourselves. But there’s nothing wrong with it.

Abby (00:43:44) Oh, it’s beautiful. And, you know, talking about being seen, I feel like what a beautiful way to see yourself. Something that wants to be expressed.

Renate (00:43:54). Yeah.

Abby (00:43:56) I love that. And so can you tell me a little bit more about what is it like working with you in doing this podcast coaching and the healing work? Like, what does that look like?

Renate (00:44:09) Yeah. So I offer one-on-one podcast coaching and that goes usually for eight weeks and I help them to set up their podcast. I have to move everything. I edited their first episodes and I kind of walked them through my practices. We do voice training. We look a bit deeper into the story and also into their unique message. Because I do feel like when you have a refined message and it will be just so much easier to get attention and to be also more crystal clear about what you’re talking about and who you are at your core.

Renate (00:44:52) And so your message is always really connected with your soul path, I believe. And that’s where human design comes in. So our plan blends a little bit of human design and my coaching as well. And, and yeah, we do some chanting practices and then I also have a group program and it’s called Launch Soulful Podcast. And within eight weeks or less than eight weeks, I have them, you know, first setting up this foundation of also owning their story, finding the why and mission and why they want to do this podcast, and also to create this future vision. And they can connect with yeah. With their future. And realize, okay, why do I do all of this?

Renate (00:45:46) Why do I start this podcast right now? Because your vision will carry you a long, long way when you know why you’re doing all of this. And we’ll just help you to keep going with your podcast and Jen and all the podcast tech. That’s its section and how to set it up on a podcast host. And but I do love to do all those spiritual practices before I do, I just love the combination of all. Yeah.

Abby (00:46:17) I love that. I love it, it’s like everything you will need from the inner to the outer. Like from your soul to your tech.

Renate (00:46:24) It’s like the boundaries are just the walls are getting knocked.

Abby (00:46:27) Down so you can create it. And I love that you incorporate that vision and that is why and honing, helping them to hone their voice and what makes them unique that’s so beautiful and so powerful.

Renate (00:46:38) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And especially, you know, working through all of those fears of being seen or being hurt and that it’s it is safe for us all to be heard and that our podcast will create a change in this life. And I believe there will be never enough podcasts out there. It’s the same with reading books or authors. There will be never enough authors out there. There’s always enough. When you’re shifting into this abundance mindset that you know there will be no competition, there’s much more collaboration possible.

Abby (00:47:20) I love that. And I was listening to your podcast intro, which I love. That was so many moments. I was like, Yes, yes, yes.

Renate (00:47:27) And and one.

Abby (00:47:30)  Part that I loved was when you said you have something to give and you know, because you’re alive. And I think a lot of women can feel that they don’t have something special to share or their voice is not worth sharing. And like, oh, what a heartbreaking thought, because they do and they’re gifts. Everyone’s gifts are so needed right now, especially the feminine way of being that, you know, the deep wisdom. I feel like it’s wanting to come back. So I love that you are helping to empower these people to share that with the world. It’s really beautiful.

Renate (00:48:06) Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And we do need to cut all this karmic baggage. We have to need this cut. We have to cut this comic cord through to our past and realize, you know, at this moment right now, we have a choice and we can create our life new. We can become a new person. Our past doesn’t determine our future. We always have a choice right now. And you can start right now and it’s never too late. You’re never too old to start anything. And you always have something to give. You always have something to share because why? Why would you be on this earth right now? With us now?

Abby (00:48:50) Yeah. Yes, love. It can give you a big high five from over here. That’s so beautiful. And I couldn’t agree more. Right. How can people find you if they want to work with you and learn more about you?

Renate (00:49:06) Yeah. So you can find my Instagram. I’m active on there. I’m called renatesophiamueller. So just my first, my middle, and my last name. Mirella is with you and then you can find me on Facebook. Renate Mueller But yeah, Instagram is where I mostly hang out and I have a link tree, so I have all the different links on there and my website is coming out as well. It’s called, so it’s super easy to find me, and yeah.

Abby (00:49:41) I love That. Thank you. That’s so great. And everyone goes check her out and go get your voice out there. The world needs that. So yeah. Thanks so much for being here or not.

Renate (00:49:51) Oh, you’re so welcome. Thank you so much. It was such a lovely conversation. I loved everything and thank you.


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21-Davina Palik

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Davina Palik

Davina Palik completed the Mentorship program last year and she shares with us her journey of healing, stepping into her medicine, and moving with her family from Quebec, Canada to Samara, Costa Rica, where she and her partner Daniel guide people through transformative breathwork sessions.

Connect with Davina:
Instagram: @davinakudish


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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind-Body Free Podcast. I’m your host, Abigail Moss, and today I am here with a friend who I’ve gotten to know from two different worlds, both photography and now healing too. So I’m with Davina Palik today, and she is a Breathwork facilitator, a journaling coach, and a retired destination wedding photographer. She’s the proud author of exactly one child’s book holder of a Bachelor’s Degree in Journalism, a mindful mama writer, share and path feminist, humanist, humanist.

Abby (00:00:33) Ask the recovering, perfectionist, creative, and storyteller. She shares her journey, which has included everything from journaling to breathwork to plant medicines, to show others that they can heal. She values vulnerability and authenticity and is called to hold a safe space to create and isn’t constantly expanding her toolbox to do this. Davina lives in Costa Rica with her partner Daniel, her son Max, and her daughter, Charlie. Welcome, Divina. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

Davina (00:01:05) Very excited to be here.

Abby (00:01:07) Yes. And this is so cool because we used to know each other in the world of wanting photography, like for so long ago. It seems like now. Yeah. Like another lifetime. And now you are living in another part of the world. Now you are doing this beautiful, healing work with your partner, Daniel. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What brought you here from where you were before?

Davina (00:01:41) My goodness, what a question.

Abby (00:01:45) All little questions today. Yeah.

Davina (00:01:48) Oh, my. I don’t even know where to begin. So many things. I mean, I had I kind of grew up with this big wound that needed healing. I think it was I was the I was sexually abused as a young girl. And I think I just. It’s my whole life. Part of my mission was to heal from that, and I think I just didn’t know it or didn’t consciously realize that. But so much of what? Presented itself in my life or was a result of these wounds. And yeah, I. I did a lot of healing without even consciously realizing it, but. Eventually through. Other things, I guess in life I realized I got into healing more intentionally, I guess.

Davina (00:02:43) As things came up and I was seeking something. Something more, something deeper. And I had struggled with depression for a long time. And I was looking for. More than just being on medication and that kind of found spirituality and ayahuasca through that and then eventually breathwork and that journaling was a big tool for me. So I used a lot of that and just kind of picked up all these tools along the way and eventually moved to Costa Rica, which was unexpected, but kind of I felt very called to this place and ended up here.

Davina (00:03:24) So the journey continues. We’re in a place now where people say that the town where we live called Samarra is a place where people come to heal. And again, I didn’t move here knowing that, but I see it in the people that I meet, people who are on similar journeys, the types of offerings that other people have intuitive folks who are meeting here who are helping me heal as well. And so yeah, that’s the overview, I guess. Yeah.

Abby (00:03:59) Yeah. Oh, man. And, and it’s wild because we were chatting a bit before and I was mentioning how last time we met like this online, just the two of us, it was like just before the mentorship started.

Davina (00:04:16) And it must have been about a year ago.

Abby (00:04:17) You’re still.

Davina (00:04:18) Doing.

Abby (00:04:19) About a year ago. Yeah. Yeah. And now you’re. You move from Montreal to Samarra. I didn’t know that. It’s a place people come to heal. That’s beautiful. It’s like, almost. Go ahead.

Davina (00:04:33) No, it’s something one of my friends who’s been here for ten years told me. She says there’s kind of like this energy here and that people come to feel.

Abby (00:04:46) Do you think that there’s like a calling for that right now in the world?

Davina (00:04:51) Yeah. I think I’m proof of that. I think. I didn’t think through the mentorship with you. One of the big lessons I received was that from my higher self essentially was that I had medicine to offer. And I remember having so much resistance to that being like, What do you mean? I don’t have any medicine to offer. I’m not special in any way. And then I got comfortable sharing more and more, and I use Instagram to share my experiences have been. And I’ve shared my healing journey from the sexual trauma on my website. And the more I share, the more people reach out to me with their own stories or just looking for someone to connect with.

Davina (00:05:44) And it’s almost every day that I have a message in my inbox from somebody who’s like, just relates to something that I’ve shared who just wants to connect or wants to share their own thing or wants to run something by me sometimes, you know, just it’s incredible. And I think I see it from these people who reach out to being and how much healing is a collective thing that we are searching for healing. And there are so many beautiful ways to do that. It doesn’t have to be just one road. And hopefully, I can show people that there are different tools and you don’t have to go to the Amazon and drink Ayahuasca either. So that is a marvelous tool. So yeah, it’s I see that there is indeed a need and I’m encouraged by how much people are seeking their healing and taking it into their own hands. And I think it’s something that we need.

Abby (00:06:43) Yeah. Did you feel? Like. As you mentioned, you’ve been sharing a lot of your journey and your healing path. And I remember, you know, not that long ago and still, sometimes it’s almost like there can be this feeling of taboo around not being like fully feeling fully perfect all the time. And I don’t know a single person that does this like shame around the concept of mental, emotional, and physical well-being. Did you find that it took courage for you to share, or is that something you were always comfortable with?

Davina (00:07:24) It’s a good question and I’m grateful for the opportunity to reflect on it now. I kind I think in a way I’ve always been comfortable sharing. Especially when it came to what happened to me as a child. It was some of the other things, maybe. Ways that I still struggle with things or that stuff that I. Feel is harder or has been harder to share. I put in my bio that I’m a recovering perfectionist and it’s something I struggle with a lot is like, what if I’m not seen as perfect? And I feel like the sexual trauma was always like, apart from me, in a way, separate from me. Like it was something that had happened to me, but that I didn’t feel like.

Davina (00:08:17) You know, I, I felt comfortable sharing it for that reason, I guess, whereas like the workings of my, into my inner mind and the ways maybe that it affected me, I would have been a little bit more hesitant to share because of how they might reflect on me, you know? Yeah. And even today, I have moments where I’m like Am I being in mine? Am I trying to protect some part of myself by not sharing this? And is it worth exploring that? And is it worth opening up to the world about this? Because someone could relate. And I feel like that is my medicine is being like, here I am and you’re welcome in this space, too. And if you relate to this, you’re not alone. Yeah.

Abby (00:09:04) That’s beautiful. And it’s. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Davina (00:09:07) No, I was just thinking about how you had said one time, like, all of me is welcome here. That was or all of you are welcome here. I feel like this came up in our mentorship. And it’s something I journaled about the other day and it came out, like, quite beautiful. I think I’m getting ready to share that one soon about how I’ll. Yeah, all of me is welcome here. I can face all these parts of me, the ugly parts, the spiritual parts, the parts that I think I’m supposed to be over by now. Surely I know better than this. And guilt. Shame, you know.

Davina (00:09:42) Greediness, like the stuff that’s the stuff that’s harder for me to share because it’s, you know, it’s the. The shadow parts, you know, but are harder to admit to. But the more we do that and in safe spaces and for me even publicly owning that I think there’s a lot of power in that. And they kind of that’s how you shed light on it and also how you connect to others who can relate.

Abby (00:10:13) Yeah, I think so too. I think that’s it’s wise and it’s really brave to do that. And it’s, you know when I think about social media and how it’s like this so often this highlight reel of the best version of ourselves and all of these apps to transform the way we look. And it’s like it feels like the antidote to that. Like just how real can I be in something I like that you mentioned could it help someone relate I like that as a question as like could this help someone relate and what they’re going through to feel less alone or with where they’re at? And was it Brené Brown that said, we all have shame and the less we talk about it, the more we have? And it’s just taking the shadow and bringing it. Yeah, we can bring the shadow into the light then. It may not be as scary as we once thought it was. It just takes some brave people to be the first to do that. And then someone else can say, Hey. Oh, yeah, me too. Oh, I thought that was just me. It wasn’t just.

Davina (00:11:17) Me.

Abby (00:11:19) Yeah. So you mentioned plant medicines. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

Davina (00:11:25) No, sorry.

Abby (00:11:25) We have a bit of a delay.

Davina (00:11:26) It’s probably my Costa Rica Internet.

Abby (00:11:29) Oh, do we? That’s okay. That’s a good trade-off for being an amazing place. You had mentioned plant medicines being part of your healing journey and also how there are other ways to kind of access these healing states. Can you tell me a bit about what plant medicines were like for you and what you found afterward to continue healing?

Davina (00:11:57) Yeah. So for me, it was I who went in with so much fear. So much fear and the experience shed light on how much fear I have had and have around a lot of different things, trying new things, losing control. The list goes on and on. So that was one of the big, big lessons that I got from ayahuasca. I also got to see how far I had come on my healing journey with regards to the sexual abuse in that I got to heal. I had an experience where I witnessed the house where all of this had taken place. I was kind of floating above it and I got to with my love. And at first, it was very scary and it was like tightening around me. The energy felt very scary. And then. I realized that I had the power to release it and to give it love and to. It was in my control, essentially. And so I started giving love to the space and a garden, and I started visualizing this garden, growing over it.

Davina (00:13:13) And it was just beautiful, wild vines. And I just got to watch my masterpiece, what my love and my forgiveness and my intention of setting the space free, what I had been able to do. And that was just like one of the first things I experienced on the first night. One of the other nights, I got to see myself as a young child sitting on the couch with my grandfather while he was abusing me. The scene that I replayed in my head so many times is something that happened many times in my childhood, and I was witness to that. And instead of feeling sorry for my child self, I kind of was like, I know she’s going to be okay. And like, she’s, she’s good. Like, she’s got this. And then I saw him and felt compassion for him.

Davina (00:14:09) And to me that was huge. It just showed me how far I had come through all these other things I’ve done in my life to bring healing. To this event. And. That specific moment showed me that I had. Reached something very difficult to reach, which is to have compassion for the person who hurt you most. So that was a powerful experience. And. A lot of other stuff. I could probably go on for like four or 5 hours about all the things that happened during that week. But when I did that with medicine, when I came back, it was very difficult. Like I will say, I was not prepared for how hard it was. I went through like really tough depression, one of the hardest I’ve ever experienced. And I felt like I was still broken and something was wrong with me.

Davina (00:15:09) And Daniel was like, we had gone together and he was just I’ve never seen him so, like, elated and high on life and attracting all this beautiful energy and connection with people. He was just it was obnoxious to me about how great he seemed compared to how I felt that I was doing. And I was like, Would you please stop smiling all the time, you know? But no, thankfully, he knows how to hold space and was very supportive. But yeah, I just struggled a lot and it was short it was around that time that we came here to Costa Rica and ended up spending three and a half months only to realize that this is where we wanted to call home. And I think since that period, I haven’t this was a year ago now, is that right? Yea, yea, yea. I haven’t experienced the darkness of depression in the way that since then really that that deep darkness. I have a different relationship with it and I think that. The magic that I witnessed with ayahuasca and afterward through different things like breathwork and other things that we’re able to get me to that state, I feel like I can’t.

Davina (00:16:30) Go back to such deep darkness when I’ve seen so much light. Because I know that I’m not made of darkness. And I think that was my fear before. That’s something I kind of believed ever since I was a child. But there was so much darkness in me and to have connected with the light allowed me to balance that out. We can have darkness, we can have a shadow, we can experience it. But it’s not what we are made of. And I feel like now that I know that through my lived experiences, something that nobody could ever take away from me, as much as someone might want to debate me on it, you know, it’s like I just I know what’s true for me. And one of the things we did a lot during the mentorship with you was to connect to that our higher self and go deep within to find what truth is and what truth feels like. And now that I have that tool, I feel like it’s a lot easier to use that voice to guide me versus, you know, all the other archetypes and ego and all these other things that try to get in the way.

Abby (00:17:36) Hmm. That’s so beautiful. There are so many things I want to speak to about what you just said. So with. And with the light in the dark. It’s it’s interesting. So I feel like I mean I was taught in Chinese medicine is the yin yang symbol where there’s the light side and the dark side and there’s the thought of light in the dark. And I thought of dark and the light. And they said, there’s always light with dark and always dark with light. And I think so much of it is just forgetting the light and remembering the light inside of us that we’re made of. I love that you said something that now that you’ve experienced can’t be taken from you. It’s such an interesting thing that to me that sounds like it’s integration. It’s like not a concept in your mind, but it’s something that you experience and knows for yourself.

Davina (00:18:27) No. And I think that very I think that right away after the experience, the ego does try to get in the way and the mind tries to get in the way. Like maybe it was all bullshit. Maybe, you know, yeah, you made that up or it’s just like a dream or like, you know, and then you try to explain it to people and they don’t necessarily understand. So you do try to like it. Find reasons why. Maybe it wasn’t what you thought it was at the moment. And that’s why I think that other practices can be really helpful, like getting back to a place of bliss during breathwork that I’ve experienced with ayahuasca was like, Oh, remember this state, it is true, it exists. And dreams. Dreams are so powerful too. And I’ve spoken to me so much since my ayahuasca experience and all of these things come into to remind me at least, that that it was was real.

Abby (00:19:29) Yeah. I remember that, though, for sure. And it’s and also being in a society where a lot of people are not in that place yet or haven’t known don’t necessarily believe in that world beyond the obvious physical things in front of us. And you mentioned coming back to those states of bliss with Breathwork. So what has that been like for you?

Davina (00:19:57) It’s so cool that Breathwork is such a big part of my life now because I didn’t choose it. And that’s like something I was to it’s ironic. I was seeking to surrender more, which sounds like a bit of an oxymoron. I wanted to be able to surrender more in my life and to let things in. And I didn’t know what that even looked like. What do you mean? Like you don’t make choices and then push towards achieving your goals. It just went against everything I have kind of done up until now in my life. And this just Breathwork was such a powerful practice for me and I have had such great experiences with it. And then I saw just one day I was like, I don’t know, maybe I would like to be facilitated in this. Maybe something I would like to be reading.

Davina (00:20:44) It seems like it could suit me well and something nobody is doing out here in Samara. So I went online to see different things and there was this one class, it was self-paced, which is really what I was looking for because I wanted to take my time. I was feeling very introverted at that moment and I wanted to have something I could work on on my own, kind of like a retreat and work on this thing. And a lot of these other classes were in-person training and stuff, so I thought that would lend itself well to me, and it just seemed like it came into my awareness for a reason. So I signed up. It was a six-month program.

Davina (00:21:23) I finished it in like maybe three months. I was so into it. And then Daniel around the same time did his training, but he did something different. He did a specific method of breathwork, whereas I did a more general training. And then we started to like it was funny because even though we started at different times and worked on them at different times, we both of us got our official certification letter on the same day, which was a total coincidence and interesting.

Abby (00:21:52) Yeah.

Davina (00:21:53) And then we started doing these ceremonies together. We’re doing the method that he was trained in, which is called Elemental Rhythm, and I kind of support him. I lead the opening meditations, I do the connecting to the light that you taught us in our mentorship. So get everybody nice and relaxed. And then moving into this, this practice, it’s very active breathwork so you’re doing these heavy, deep breathing, different patterns of it, and we guide along with music and then some breath holds. And then the whole experience, the whole breathing experience lasts only about 30 minutes, but the whole experience is about 2 hours because there’s so there’s a long meditation at the end and some integration time and then we share.

Davina (00:22:46) And it’s just incredible to see the experiences that people can have. It’s just and here in Samara, you know, people are here to heal. We see it a lot through the people who pop into our class. And we have regulars already, even though we’ve only been doing this like several times now, people who come every week and who have a different experience every week, and there’s a lot of people who come out here to experience plant medicine as well. So they might do, Oh, some people facilitate blood flow out here. And so they go to this complete ego, death and reaching, you know, like a near-death experience. And then they come to Breathwork a couple of days later and they’re able to go back to that place just through Breathwork, which is incredible. And I’ve seen people have memories of childhood memories come up, relationships that are being called to be healed, that are coming up, and the memories that they’re being shown related to somebody in their life with who they then feel called to reconnect with or. You name it.

Davina (00:23:49) I feel like we’ve already seen it and we’ve only just begun. So it’s such a beautiful, powerful practice for accessing all kinds of things. And recently my parents came to visit and then my sister and her partner came to visit. And so my dad, who I would have never imagined would be interested, came to one of our classes. And so, yeah, it was incredible to have him like come and do the breathing. And I saw him working hard and it was the first class that I assisted Daniel with, which was cool. And then afterward, like even my mom was like, Wow, he’s so white, he feels like a different person. And I was like, Yeah, transformation comes in all sorts of different ways. He might not have had much to report on in terms of the experience, but something happened because I could feel it. We could all feel it just being around him and yeah, it’s cool to be able to share that now with people in my life as well.

Abby (00:24:46) That’s so beautiful. What a beautiful blend with the breathwork that Daniel is leading them through. And then this extra layer of intention and connection sounds like integration afterward as well that you help guide them through. It’s incredible and so beautiful to be able to offer that to people in your life, especially people who you wouldn’t expect. I find it, you know, it can be so surprising who shows up and is ready to do the work once you start offering it to people?

Davina (00:25:12) Yeah.

Abby (00:25:14) Ha. Yeah, I remember doing I did a hollow Tropic Breathwork class like I attended one a few years ago, and I just did the breathing, the circular breathing process and then all my hands, like, tightened up. And I felt all of this tension in my body and all this tingling. And then I just a lovely facilitator came over and she did this like Reiki tuning sound and like, put her hand on my neck and all this, like, deep, deep wail of a cry just came out for a couple of minutes and I was like, too in it to care to be embarrassed about everybody else in the room hearing it. But afterward, I just felt so much lighter and the whole rest of that week I felt like a different person. And my husband Dave was saying, you, you were better. When you go to that, you should go more. I don’t think they’re offering it here anymore, unfortunately, but it was amazing. It was so transformative. And it was something that was just about breathing and being in my body and moving all the stuff that was held in my body.

Davina (00:26:15) is Pretty incredible. It is like there’s when I’m guiding, I’m often telling people like, see how if you’re facing resistance, see what’s on the other side of that, because it is a safe practice for doing that. And you’re like, Oh, it’s just breathing. But then you do face like so many, your ego’s trying to protect you, right? It’s like, don’t go there. You shouldn’t open that door, you should stop breathing or you should go back to your regular breathing. And all of this comes up. And even to me, what you’re describing, the like the hands and all that being super tight, we see that all the time, these little like lobster claws just because the PH levels change in your body. So it causes that. And I find it like oddly cute when people are like their little tiny hands.

Abby (00:27:03) Lobsters, little.

Davina (00:27:05) Insect arms and yeah, it can be very scary for people, too, which is why it’s helpful to have we always brief people on the kinds of things they can expect. Yeah, it’s incredible. What you can do with just your body and the emotional release that you’re just describing is so common for me. I don’t think I’ve ever done breathwork and not like cried a ton or released some kind of in some kind of emotional way. I’ve also experienced that with ice baths, which is probably one of my least favorite things to do, but also one of the most powerful things that I can do. It’s literally like 5 minutes to release so much. And I also was able to bring my sister and her partner sub to the ice baths that we do here with the community.

Davina (00:27:54) A lot of people come to Breathwork, go to the ice baths as well, and a lot of different great offerings around here. And the ice bath. The first time I did it here, it was. I went in and I was like my whole body. I got the technique from being in that ice bath. My whole body was frozen, you know, couldn’t move at all. And I was just focused on my breathing. It’s like I went into a trance or something. And then when my body finally relaxed, I just burst out in tears. But like a child, like this deep, deep sob. And one thing that’s helpful for me with this stuff and something that I will guide people in Breathwork as well, is that we don’t always need to have a story around these emotions. Sometimes they’re just stored in there. They might not even be ours.

Davina (00:28:39) They just what we have to do, what our job is essentially is to be present with them and let them pass, you know, and breathwork ice baths. All of these types of things are great practices for just releasing that stored energy, those emotions that just show up. They just want to be felt. And yeah, there doesn’t have to be a story around it. Like, Oh, why am I sad? Or Why am I so angry? The last ice bath  I did. I was so mad. I had so much anger. I went in and I was like, I’m mad. I have to do this. I don’t want to be here. And the facilitator who helps us through the ice baths, she’s like, Let it out, let it out. Just be you. And I was just like, wow, like screaming in the ice baths and felt amazing. And then when I got out, I was like a new person. Yeah, that’s amazing.

Abby (00:29:24) Very powerful. It is. It is amazing. It’s like in the work that I’ve done over the years, I felt I feel like. Maybe the number one, one of the key things that contribute to this depression and fatigue and illness, it’s just all of the emotions that didn’t get to be felt that are still held in the body. And if we can find more ways of getting those out, and especially without even needing to attach to the story like that, can just we can look at it and analyze it in a package, but sometimes we just got to heal and we got to get it out. We need to do it as fast as possible so that we can start feeling a lot lighter and a lot freer. And it’s something that I don’t think we talk about a lot in our society.

Abby (00:30:08) And so it can even seem surprising to me, too, or a friend of mine gave me a massage one time and I had like this chronic jaw, like this TMJ tension, and she massages all the stuff out of my jaw and I felt great. And I went to bed that night and I woke up in the middle of the night just furious, like, for no reason, but just so angry. And she worked all this tension out of my jaw, like, down to my heart, where I could feel and process it. There’s no story behind it. It was just like, Oh, this is all the stuff that was sitting in my body. And it’s I think if there are as many avenues as we can find to release that effectively, then that’s so powerful and it’s so healing and it’s so preventative for other possible issues down the road.

Davina (00:30:53) Yeah. All of that gets stuck in the body if it’s not expressed. My friend here is a massage therapist, a yoga teacher, and a lightworker. She’s extremely connected and I’ve had the privilege of being at her table a couple of times. She does like a34 hour massage. It’s incredible. And she works through it. Yeah, she’ll be like, Here’s your grandmother’s anger. You know, she’ll find so much stuff in the body. And it’s like, really, she really reads the body and finds things that are stuck in there, and she’ll work as long as she needs to on certain parts. Yeah, I’ve had this chronic shoulder issue for years now and I’m constantly trying to work with it to be like, What’s in here? What’s stuck in here? I’m still working on it. I still don’t know all the answers. I keep having these like ideas of what it is, and sometimes I’m like, Maybe I don’t need to think about it. I just need to feel through it. And sometimes I’m like, No, I need to break this down. And so it teaches me a lot, this injury, and yeah, always unpacking new layers of it until hopefully it will get healed eventually for good.

Abby (00:32:06) Yeah. I have faith that I will. For you, it’s just part of the journey, right? Continuing to unpack and learn. I find that true. Like I’m learning more and more every day and feeling more and more called to integrate lessons physically into the body.

Davina (00:32:21) Yeah. I believe that if it’s still there, it’s because it still has more to teach me. So I just need to keep. Keep listening and keep paying attention. Keep being with it.

Abby (00:32:31) Exactly. Yeah, it’s a great perspective. I kind of see it similar. I see it as a feedback system of like, okay, my body’s giving me a message or it needs my attention in some way. And whether that be feeling emotion or integrating something with breath or movement or awareness or life path, as you guys went to this whole other part of the world to kind of sounds like answer this sort of calling. I feel like that’s a big part of it too, is just permitting yourself to do what you feel like you’re meant to be doing and where you’re meant to be doing it.

Davina (00:33:04) Yeah. There are so many excuses we can come up with to come up with, to do, or to not do the things that sometimes we’re called to do. This is a huge leap of faith in so many ways. I’ve had so much emotion come up around this move. And, you know, I was attending the mentorship during the move, right when we’re preparing to leave. And when we arrived here, the mentorship kind of fell right in the middle of all of that, which was wonderful for me. It meant I had a lot of support from all the women in the group. But yeah, so much came up, you know, it was, What am I doing? Why I’m imploding my life, you know, why would I step into the unknown like this?

Davina (00:33:43) I still have moments of really, really being homesick, of missing the house that we lived in and grieving the fact that, like, our life will never be in that house again. And all those memories of the kids being Little Charlie are my almost six-year-old. She was brought home to that house and. Yeah. It’s just really there’s a lot of sadness around the passage of time because it’s such a house is such an anchor for those five years of our life, which happened to be the first five years of Charlie’s life, too. And I still grieve a little bit for that house. And there are so many layers around that because I have I recognize the privilege that I had to be able to sell the house. When we did, nobody kicked us out. We weren’t forced out of the house for financial reasons. If anything, we got to sell at the height of the market, probably.

Davina (00:34:37) I never thought we’d be able to sell the house for what we were able to sell it for, but it was a result of that time. And, you know, all of these things kind of ushered us out of there being like, Oh, do you want me to make it easier for you? Like, here’s a good financial amount for your house and you want me to make it easier for you? It’ll sell in four days. And, you know, here’s a beautiful town that you love. Oh, and the town also has a French school, which was important for you. Like, you know, all of these little things that just lined up and community, my goodness, like I just said, the word community. And I got chills up in my arms because I didn’t know that I was moving here for the community. But like, that is what we got here. Like, it makes me emotional because it’s so special and it’s something I’ve never experienced before. Like, I didn’t know I was missing it until we came here.

Davina (00:35:25) It’s we’ve been here almost seven months now, and I have probably 12 people who I could call if I needed them right now who would show up here for me, you know, like emotionally or physically or picking up our kids because we can’t make it or lending us their car because our car broke down, like or, you know, if I just really needed someone to talk to, it’s just. I feel like we have these beautiful relationships with people here, but I’m so grateful for people from all over the world and people who are born and raised here in Costa Rica I’ve had the pleasure of making all kinds of different friendships. Yeah. It’s something so, so special. And when my family was here visiting, I felt really lucky that they got to witness that.

Davina (00:36:10) And even though it’s something like my parents couldn’t see themselves doing, moving to Costa Rica, they kind of thing we’re crazy to have done this. I think part of them were nuts, but they also told us, like, we get it, I can see you and we see the kids and how you’re thriving here and these beautiful people and your life. And we get it. And that was I didn’t need that, but it was nice to be able to share that with them and to have them see it.

Abby (00:36:35) Yeah. Wow, it is so beautiful. And something, where that came to mind earlier when you were talking about kind of holding that space of what you touched, was real like with adult will come up of like, oh did you make that all up? That was all in your mind. But if you can find community and people who will be in that space with you and share that with you, I find it can be so affirming and nurturing to help grow that part of you and such a beautiful heart connection.

Davina (00:37:09) Yeah. And I feel like I was sharing this with Daniel the other day. I feel like a lot of the people who we’ve met here, they see me and like, I don’t know how to express this. I feel like I like how they see me. I like the reflection of me that I see through them. Hmm. Like there’s a friend I made here. Who? I sat with her. We had this, like, four-hour coffee, and she facilitates Rufo, and she just talked about me, like, the way she sees me. And I was just, like, in awe that I got to receive that from her with such a beautiful gift, you know? She’s like, I see how real you are and how pure your heart is.

Davina (00:37:58) And she shared a lot of things with me that were very difficult for her to share in the past, but she’s like, I feel very open with you and I want to share this with you. And it’s like, I got to see again, like the medicine that I have to give. I got to see it reflected through how she was able to receive it if that makes sense. And I think I’ve been somebody who for a long time I had this idea that I. It was very ordinary and had nothing special to offer. And I was broken and needed so much healing and so much caretaking and all of this. And then being like, No, actually a lot of what I’ve lived is part of what makes me have this medicine.

Davina (00:38:42) And if it’s nothing else but to hold space for people so they can share something that they’ve never shared with anyone before, that is extremely valuable. I don’t have to be some kind of like guru or medicine woman, you know, and it doesn’t have to look a certain way. And I’m finding ways that I just existing and doing continuing to do the work that I’m doing for myself and coming from a very humble place where my ego has a healthy reality check regularly, you know, is allowing me to to get out of my way and to just be of service in the way that I think that I’m probably meant to, you know.

Abby (00:39:26) Yeah. Yeah. That’s such a beautiful journey to go on and kind of realize that you do have these things to share. And I feel like we can get caught in our heads of having to look a certain way or be a certain format. But like when you were talking about just being so open and connecting with people and talking about the struggles you’ve been through and helping them to relate and share their story back to you. That in itself is medicine and there are so many other kinds. It’s just so many ways that you share gifts with the world. It’s beautiful to see.

Davina (00:40:00) Yeah. I think of all the ways that I tried to prevent myself from doing that to, you know, it’s like it kind of makes me laugh because I hosted this journaling group recently. It was a six-week kind of program that came to me very intuitively. I just sat down. I was, like, battling in my mind with it for a long time. It was this idea I had for so long. I feel like I talked about it even during the mentorship, like this idea of like wanting to because journaling has been so powerful for me and I kept getting these like downloads of like, here’s a good topic that you could explore. And I was like, No, no, but I’m not the person to do that. That’s not for me. That’s not for me.

Davina (00:40:36) And then eventually I was like, What if it was for me? What would that look like? And then I just allowed myself to go there. I wrote it all down, I fleshed it out. I, you know, and at the end of it, I was like, this is good. I think I think this could be helpful for people. A lot of the journaling prompts and the themes are helpful to explore and were things that I had done myself and have found helpful. And then I just put it out there to see if anyone was interested. And in 24 hours I had to like close my page down because I had so many people like I wanted to do it.

Davina (00:41:09) And then I did it. But it took me a while to like to announce the dates because there was more fear there. There was more, you know, maybe not. You and my inner saboteur were so loud. You had so many reasons why I shouldn’t do it and I wasn’t the right person to do it, etc., etc. Why? I needed more time, I needed more training, and I needed to read more books. You know, so many reasons. And then I was like, You know what? I can hold space. I know how to hold space. And these prompts are good and they’ve helped me. And these people are here and they, they applied and they want to do this with me, so let’s just do it. And I led the group by explaining how much resistance I had met.

Davina (00:41:51) And so I started it by being very honest. I was like, Here are all the things my inner saboteur had to say before I had to shut that voice down and decide to do it anyway. And it was beautiful. It was so beautiful. I had women from all over the world and it was incredible meeting with them every week and seeing, you know, so much coming out of them and how much they showed up to give it they’re all. It was like, here are masks coming down. Here’s what I’m struggling with. Like, you won’t see this on social media, but this is what’s going on behind the scenes. It was just beautiful. I had chills every week on that, on those calls. I cried every week. It was I wasn’t a perfect leader. I didn’t always know the right thing to say. I often cried at people’s stories. I’m sure if I was like doing life coaching, I would have broken all the rules. But.

Davina (00:42:46) But I was me. And I think that was. I did the best I could. And, and it was a beautiful conversation and everyone got a lot out of it. I had beautiful feedback and then I started hosting them here in Samara as well with a small group of women, same thing, this sisterhood, and supportive circle and allowing the journaling to guide the conversations. And it was incredible. And I was like, I could have just listened to that voice and not done this and why, you know, why would I have done that? So I try to keep that in mind. Now, when things come through, something that I’m inspired to do, it’s where is this coming from? Like, where is this creative idea coming from? And oftentimes it’s a battle too. To make sure that the ego and the saboteur voices are contributing something helpful, you know, because sometimes maybe they do have something helpful to say. Maybe it’s true that I don’t know a lot about that topic.

Davina (00:43:50) Maybe that’s one I should stay away from this time. Or maybe that’s something I’d want to learn more about before I venture down that road. That’s helpful feedback. But being like, Don’t do this. Keep yourself safe. Nobody wants to learn from you or whatever. Those are not helpful voices. So I can better detect now where they’re coming from. And I think humility is a big part of it, too. Like mine. My ego needs to be really, really in check. I’m not doing anything that I do if I think I’m doing it for some kind of, like, fame or fortune. Not that there’s fame or fortune in any of the stuff I’ve been doing, but that’s something I need to pay attention to. Awareness? I think what it is for me.

Abby (00:44:35) Yeah. Yeah, it’s I think that when you mentioned earlier how you opened up this journaling class by saying these are all the things that I came up against, this is all the resistance I had to even do this. It’s like it opens up the floor to say, you can be this real here. It’s okay. We don’t have to pretend. And it just takes one person having that level of courage. And that’s such a beautiful space to hold for people, for them to feel, Oh, it’s okay, we’re all equals and it’s safe to show these parts of me here. And just by the way, I also cry when people share their stories. I don’t know if there’s an official you’re not supposed to cry rule, but I don’t follow that if they’re either. You’re just being real and being a person and connecting from the heart, you know? It’s beautiful.

Davina (00:45:26) I could never be any other way, honestly. I just couldn’t. I’ve always been extremely sensitive and Charlie is a little copy of me when it comes to that. She is super sensitive. We watch a Disney movie and we’ll like sob together, you know, just very empathetic.

Abby (00:45:42) It’s a superpower because it helps you hold space and feel what other people are feeling. And I remember, I think I couldn’t be any other way either or I could try, but I mean, miserable trying. I remember listening to Oprah talk at one point about how she was, like, starting as this news anchor, but she was using all these personal stories and reactions and it was seen as not professional. And it wasn’t like she wasn’t doing it right or doing it well. And then she had this thought like, Well, wait a minute, maybe that is what makes me great. I just pivot it and find a place where she was allowed to be here and made a whole bunch of magic. I feel like it’s just that’s not wrong. It’s just where can I connect in a way that this is a gift?

Davina (00:46:26) Yeah. That’s such a beautiful way of looking at it. Where can I connect? In a place where this is a gift? Yeah. I don’t know if that are the exact words. I tried to repeat it exactly, but. Yeah, it’s really. That’s so beautiful. And that is totally what made Oprah so good. You know, that’s what we love about her. That’s how she was so real. And yeah, I wouldn’t want to be any other way. I mean, it’s that’s how I connect to people too, is I think that’s how they feel like they can share with me because I can hold that space and that I can. I can feel their emotions at least. Yeah.

Abby (00:47:04) Yeah. Help them feel seen. That’s a really powerful thing to be seen in that way and that heart space. So. So are you offering these journaling sessions now? Are you and Daniel doing Breathwork together now? So what’s next for you guys?

Davina (00:47:24) So we are continuing the Breathwork classes or the sessions here. We’re about to leave. We’re leaving for three weeks. At the end of the week, we’re going to the US. We’re doing a little road trip with the kids. They’re off school for a bit, so we figured we’d have a little adventure, which we’re very excited about. And then when we come back, we’ll resume our breathwork sessions. I’m putting it together I’m between journaling classes right now. I just wrapped up my first one, the one online and the one in person. And so I’m kind of figuring out how I want to structure the next ones, but I’m also working on something a little different. I guess it’s another one that I’ve been having a lot of voices getting involved in the process.

Davina (00:48:18) It’s called a return to wholeness, and it’s continuing on the path of healing, on the theme of healing, which is what I think I can I can never get away from, just forever. What I will be doing, I think. But the idea of this return to wholeness is to kind of. Forming a deeper connection to ourselves through different practices. I’ll have recorded Breathwork meditations and sessions. We’ll do like journaling prompts. We’ll do worksheets and different topics to explore and meet. I think I’ll probably do it. That’ll be optional to do it in a self-paced, self-led kind of situation. And also I’ll want to do one with live calls because I enjoy those a lot. And the power of connecting to other people in this container, as I’ve seen firsthand how powerful that is. And so I’ll have that component available.

Davina (00:49:22) And yeah, I’m still kind of like fleshing it out and exploring what that means, trying to spend time with like the most aligned in alignment version of myself so that the ideas are coming from, from that part of me. Yeah. That’s one thing I got to, got to practice through the mentorship was connecting to that part of me and listening to what that part has to say. I think like you kind of touched on this before, but the things I’m trying to create now, I want them to come from like a humble place and from that place of alignment. And it’s more asking myself, like, how is this going to serve others? Versus like me needing to control things to be a certain way or me needing to come off a certain way.

Davina (00:50:15) And that’s I think that’s. I needed to go through a lot of this other stuff to get to that place where I can even be aware of the difference between those voices. Yeah. They’re still there. The voices are still there. But I have a better relationship with them maybe. And I can identify them better. Hmm.

Abby (00:50:39) Beautiful. Yeah. And they, like, they don’t get to run the show anymore, it sounds like.

Davina (00:50:45) Exactly. Yeah.

Abby (00:50:48) So if for the people out there. Who is working through their fear, because you had mentioned that was a big part of the beginning of your healing journey with ayahuasca was moving through this fear this kind of fear of the unknown, this desire to control that, and then stepping into compassion and know so much you’ve been through. So there are people who are on their path and they’re confronting these kinds of things. What would you want them to know?

Davina (00:51:23) I’m. There’s a difference between fear and danger. So, you know, we can look like we think we’re in danger. But remembering that just because it feels scary doesn’t mean it’s something you’re incapable of. It’s a very simple lesson, but ayahuasca repeated to me over and over again, You can do hard things, which is I think there’s a children’s book named that like very basic. But yeah, you can do hard things and sometimes do breathwork I’ll say that to people, just remembering that the boundaries of our comfort zone can be stretched and it can be scary. But it also doesn’t have to be like that. Karate chopping them down. You can stretch them gently and it can be a process. And, you know, there’s a place for conquering fear in a way that’s still it will. It’s scary. Conquering fear is scary, but it can still be done at your own pace. And there’s still a way to do that while respecting what you’re ready for.

Davina (00:52:33) And also that there are a lot of practices to get you comfortable, you know, with fear, which sounds ironic, comfortable with fear, but or to practice that, you know, conquering fear is a practice. And if you’re able to find ways to face fear and to go beyond fear regularly in a way that’s safe and controlled, like ice baths, like Breathwork, those are two very powerful practices we’ve talked about that I personally just really connect to. Then other stuff doesn’t feel as scary anymore. You train yourself to know that you are capable of facing fear and that you’re stronger than you think. Hmm.

Abby (00:53:18) That’s beautiful. Where can people find you, Davina, if they want to learn more about the work you do?

Davina (00:53:25) Yeah. So my website is constantly a work in progress, but I try to post there and the things that I’m doing and I post some of my journaling entries there and try to continue sharing there on Instagram. I’m @Davinakudish. Could I eventually I will probably change back to there too. But for now, I’m still at Kudish, which is my partner’s last name. And yeah, those are the two, the two places. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:54:04) So. Well, thank you for sharing your journey, and thank you for your openness and authenticity, and integrity in it. And it’s I, I can feel how much it’s reaching out and helping other people and we can’t know how much more that will ripple out now and in the future. So really beautiful work you’re doing.

Davina (00:54:24) Thank you. Thanks for having this conversation with me and also for everything that I’ve gotten from having you as my mentor. It’s been I’m still every day continuing to unpack some of what we explored. And I’m grateful for that.

Abby (00:54:42) I think you it’s so much fun. And you were talking earlier about, like, needing to feel prepared and those things that were coming up. It’s like, I feel like every class is like an adventure. Like, I’ll show something, but I don’t know what’s going to how people are going to respond. And that’s part of what makes it so interesting, is this like dynamic alive thing. And I’m guessing for your what you teach to like you can’t know how people are going to show up or what’s going to come up for them. But that’s part of the adventure. It’s a beautiful thing you get to hold space for.

Davina (00:55:15) And that’s been a huge place for me to face fear. That fear of how am I going to come off and are they going to think I’m terrible at this and being like, no, I trust my intuition. I trust the flow. And yeah, I can only do my best and show up as mine. My most aligned self and give myself grace when it’s not perfect and yeah.

Abby (00:55:59) Absolutely. Thank you. th


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Jeanette Lee: Chinese Energetic Medicine

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Jeanette Lee: Chinese Energetic Medicine

In episode 20 of the Mind Body Free Podcast, Jeanette Lee shares his journey of Chinese Energetic Medicine and how she works with the principles of Traditional Chinese Medicine, energy healing, and personalized qigong prescription exercises to help her clients heal from chronic physical conditions. 

Jeanette has helped me tremendously in my own healing journey and I’m proud to introduce as the newest team member of Mind Body Free, where she is supporting students in the Mentorship Program with Qigong as well as offering private Chinese Energetic Medicine treatments

This episode is for anyone struggling with chronic fatigue, pain, digestive issues, reproductive issues, cancer, or any other physical condition that’s been affecting your quality of life. As well as anyone wanting to learn more about energy work and how to feel your own energy.

Connect with Jeanette:


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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello and welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I am here with my friend Jeanette Lee. I met Jeanette many years ago when we were studying shamanic Chinese medicine and medical qigong together. And it’s been so fun to go in our directions and I’m going to delve into the world of shamanic healing. And Jeanette is amazing at Chinese energetic medicine and supporting people with physical conditions, and I’m excited to introduce you to her today because she is just a wealth of information, so much knowledge, and just so light-hearted and fun to connect with.

Abby (00:00:42) And she’s been working with me in the mentorship program. She’s been helping the students connect with their energy field, and strengthen their energy field through qigong, through different energy treatments. And she’s helped me so much. She just kind of showed up as this angel who saw one of my posts on Facebook saying, hey, I’m going through all of this Candida stuff. And she reached out and she said, Hey, I want to work with you. I want to do sessions with you. And I was like, Yeah, that would be great. And so it’s been a huge difference. I’ve been doing these specialized exercises she’s given me.

Abby (00:01:17) We’ve done lots of one on one sessions together, and I’m regaining my energy bit by bit and feeling so much better about life and my body and everything. And it’s just so nice to have her in the community, to have her support me personally, and also to have her in the mentorship supporting our lovely students there. So welcome, Jeanette. Thank you for being here.

Jeanette (00:01:38) Thanks, Abby.

Abby (00:01:43) You are welcome, my friend. So can you give me a little bit of background about you? I know that you had mentioned that you grew up learning about herbs and food as medicine and creating balance in the body. Like, can you tell me a little bit about your background?

Jeanette (00:02:03) I grew up in a very traditional Chinese family and traditional Chinese families, herbs and energy, and Chinese medicine. It’s almost part of your daily life because whatever you eat has to be for the season for certain conditions. Just as an example, my mother always cooked soup as she would. Literally. It’s called boil herbal soup in Chinese, and it would be depending on the season, it would be depending on if somebody was sick with the flu or the cold in the house. She would make specific soups, say, with asparagus and various other roots and goji berry, etc., and that’s to support the health of her children and her family. If we, for example, eat out, we always eat out in Chinese restaurants.

Jeanette (00:03:03) There was no such thing as eating at McDonald’s for us. We were a staunch Chinese family. So of course when you eat in Chinese restaurants, the food is always really rich. So there’s a term in Chinese, it’s called I’ll say it in Cantonese. So she would always if we ate in a Chinese restaurant and we brought leftovers home and little baggies, we ate that for a day or two. She would always make another dinner afterward that would address that rich richness in the diet to help your body balance. So it’s part of the traditional meal. And of course, if you’re helping in the kitchen, all the kids had to help in the kitchen. You had to learn about the preparation of foods and what goes with what and what you should never have. Like, for example, you never put garlic in Chinese soup. Never, ever, ever. It’s a bad thing.

Abby (00:04:06) You know that.

Jeanette (00:04:09) Sometimes you put ginger in, but not very often. If it’s a warming soup, you use ginger. But honestly, never use accurate vegetables in soups at all because they’re overstimulating and they’re not calming. They also affect your lungs in certain ways. So there’s I mean, you only learn this if you’re growing up in a Chinese family and you’re in the kitchen cooking or chopping. In my case, I chopped everything. Yeah, I was on food prep duty.

Abby (00:04:50) That’s amazing. I wish I had. Can we have it? We all have one of your moms. Be so. Incredible growing up and the fact that you made a second meal to address the richness of the going out meal, that’s just that’s a dedicated woman. That’s beautiful.

Jeanette (00:05:05) I don’t know if in today’s world some Chinese families are as traditional or as observant with what their dietary intake is because it’s cultural. It’s very much cultural and it’s like it goes with the seasons or it goes with the month. For example, in the springtime, it’s liver foods that you would eat. So you would eat lots of fresh greens, especially brassicas green brassicas because of the vitamin C and some of the other antioxidants and everything good for your liver. There are other things that you probably do for your liver, and I’m not sure. I think it’s called Golden Thread. Not sure, but that’s another thing that you would eat. There are also other things like helping to balance or clean your liver out.

Abby (00:06:04) What kind of things would you do to help balance or clean out your liver? Because I know springtime is the liver season. So yeah, along with eating the greens and the brassicas, what could you do to help your liver?

Jeanette (00:06:17) In the Western diet? I would say. And Western herbs I would say every morning when you get up, the first thing you do is you drink a glass of water, a full glass of water. Sometime during the day, you should probably drink water with lemon juice. Maybe a quarter or a half of lemon juice in. And just from my own learning experience. You should always drink lemon juice with a straw so that you don’t damage your teeth.

Abby (00:06:51) And we also had that learning experience. Unfortunately.

Jeanette (00:06:55) This is my group saying never drink lemon juice, drink it out of a straw.

Abby (00:07:00) My animals have taught me that lesson.

Jeanette (00:07:05) So other herbs that you could dandelion greens in fresh salads or even lightly steam because fresh salads aren’t the greatest for you. Based on Chinese medicine, you should always have things warm, slightly warm, or cooked, because it does harm them. It harms your spleen. So when I say green, when you eat greens, you should probably just have them lightly steamed. If you like having salads, then that way it will just slightly wilt, and then you can still have dressing and everything on them. A western herb that’s good for your liver is milk vessel. That’s another one that helps to clean and support your liver.

Abby (00:07:55) Nice. So I tend to avoid, like, raw vegetables that are hard on the spleen. So the spleen and the stomach are connected. So spleens are kind of all about digestion. And then I think I have heard it before is kind of like it’s a cauldron, like a digestive fire. So if we put it in icy cold water and it’s going to, it’s not going to work as well. Is that right? Yeah.

Jeanette (00:08:19) slows it. It shocks the spleen and it shocks the stomach to have cold, cold things in their stomach. And when you hit cold things contract. And then the juices don’t flow. So what they say in Chinese medicine is that it damages the actual spleen key itself. So once your spleen starts to. Lower. It causes all sorts of problems in the body. So once you’re deficient, typically the spleen is the organ system that controls the muscles. So once you’re spleen deficient, you’ll find that your muscles will weaken.

Jeanette (00:09:11) You may have extreme deficiencies, you may have diarrhea. Or on the other hand, your stomach energy may tend to flare up because the spleen is not there anchoring it, and your stomach energy may tend to flare up. So then you have acid reflux, and you have constant burping. Another thing that may happen is dampness. It can be because the spleen qi is unable to move, and dampness may start creeping into the body.

Abby (00:09:43) You describe what dampness is.

Jeanette (00:09:46) Dampness is the liquids in your body and they’re different from what you would think they are. For example, if you were to just scrape your skin, just skin yourself, you’ll see just not deep enough to hit the blood layer. But just on the surface, you’ll see a little bit of liquid that comes out of there. That’s part of the body system of liquid. You also get dampness in terms of your tissues holding a little bit of excess liquid or water. You’ll have dampness that accumulates because there’s not enough cheese to move. That water or that liquid.

Jeanette (00:10:32) And as soon as water or liquid stays in one spot, then it tends to I guess the term might be coagulated or it will lose and it will thicken with extreme dampness. It will turn flammable. And phlegm is the root of many, many issues in the body, including arthritis, gout, and even cancers.

Abby (00:11:02) Yeah,  Dampness is one that I’ve been working with and it is a mofo to clear out. It takes longer than the other ones.

Jeanette (00:11:12) It takes a long time. It can take years to clear down this, and it takes a long time to bring your spleen energy back up. Naturally.

Abby (00:11:24) And dampness and weather. When we say qi, we’re talking about energy. And so dampness would be one of the pathogenic factors, I believe it’s referred to. And so there’s dampness, there’s dryness, there is heat, wind, cold, and then there’s a dry heat that the other one.

Jeanette (00:11:46) I can’t remember. There are five, right?

Abby (00:11:51) Yeah. Damp, cold heart. Wind. Dried Chinese, I think. Yeah, And so and so those are kind of like different descriptors to a way the body can be imbalanced. And I’ve heard it described as a kind of Chinese medicine is different in one of the ways it’s different than Western medicine is that it looks like the body as a garden, and it’s not so much about the individual part of the body, but looking at it holistically and how do we bring it back into balance, is that would that be how you would view it or would you change that description?

Jeanette (00:12:31) No, that’s a perfect description. Your body’s a garden or it’s an environment within itself and ecosystem and your organs all work together and organs have channels that run through your entire head to toe. And channels are attached to organs. So those specific channels will have specific energy flows up or down from the organs. And if one organ is out of whack, another organ will. Eventually, become weakened because of the energy cycle from within your organs each organ provides. Energy to another set of organs. And that’s the cycle. It’s the five-element cycle or the five-phase cycle within the organ. So if one fails, then the next one will eventually fail. And then because that one fails, a third will fail, and then the whole cycle. The other thing is.

Abby (00:13:42)

Abby: Every two considers to be working.

Jeanette (00:13:44) Yeah. When you’re deficient, for example, if you’re deficient there, that will create other issues in terms of excess, excess or if you’re deficient, you could hit burnout and become yang deficient. And there are all sorts of differences. I guess what they would call syndromes happening. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:14:14)

Abby: Yeah. And you mentioned the five elements working together. So each organ is paired with a different element and they all work together as a cycle and each one is essential. And that’s like also when one goes offline or just doesn’t work properly and all of the other ones feel it and eventually, the other ones start suffering as well. Yeah.

Jeanette (00:14:39) So yeah.

Abby (00:14:41) Do you find that there are common conditions that you see a lot of? There’s like patterns that you see with what’s going on, people that you work with.

Jeanette (00:14:51) Yeah. The most common, I think, and most likely because I work more with women than with men, although I have long, long-term male clients that I work with and see every week. But in terms of women, the one that I see quite often is spleen qi deficiency, yin deficiency, and yang or liver yang excess.

Jeanette (00:15:28) And that also impacts their monthly cycle tremendously. So if you don’t have the cheek to move and your liver is not moving, or if it’s flaring upwards, then it will throw your cycle off completely.

Abby (00:15:51) And that’s.

Jeanette (00:15:51) Why. I’m so.

Abby (00:15:52) Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. That’s why we were working on that together. So you were helping me with that? Because that was throwing my cycle off. Well, it’s been like this since my whole life, but I am actively working on it now because I had just been on birth control pills from the time I was like 14 to 32, which incidentally can contribute to Candida overgrowth, which I’ve been dealing with lately. So for me, I probably had that condition even when I was a kid, you know, or when I was younger. This is like spleen qi deficiency and immune deficiency. I remember being a little kid and being tired. I remember having passed out at one time, remember? Like having a sensitive stomach to food. So is this something that people could be born with or is it something they usually develop or a combination there?

Jeanette (00:16:45) There is. From what I’ve read, I worked with a fellow a couple of years ago who had stomach issues, and he was extremely spleen qi deficiency, and he had loose balls, diarrhea, and digested food. And he asked me the same question. And at that point, I didn’t know if it was hereditary that was passed down in like in Chinese, they call it Jing or the essence. But one day his little boy came in and I think at that point he was five years old and we were just joking. I was playing with him. I got him up on the table and I was tickling him. And then I said, Is there a butterfly? And at that point, I turned into his energy and I said, Is there a little butterfly that’s flipping around in your stomach? And he said, Yeah, it’s always there. I said, Hmm. And you sometimes have diarrhea and you feel really tired. And he’s like, Yeah. So at that point, I realized he had pretty much the same thing as his dad, but at a very much younger age and not as developed. So I guess in hindsight, I would say, yes, that things like that can be inherited.

Abby (00:18:18) Yeah. Wow. That’s a good insight into that. And you mentioned feeling into his energy. And so that’s something that you do because you do Chinese energetic medicine treatments one on one with people. So what is that like when you work with their energy? Like, what is that process like?

Jeanette (00:18:36) So. When I work with people hands-on, it’s much different because I’m very much more present and I’m very physical and I touch them and I’ll palpate into different points and I’ll push pulse energy through them. So it’s much more. Physical material type of treatment. I do go off into their outer energy fields and work in their outer energy fields because there’ll be different things happening. There may be inconsistencies that I need to bring through the body, but for the most part, with COVID, I do all of my treatments by distance.

Jeanette (00:19:24) So what happens there is I connect with the client on Zoom and I’ll be assessed and I’ll talk to them. And, then we go into the treatment. The client will lay down and I will bring their energetic form onto my table and I’ll work with their energetic form. I’m able to connect to them by stepping into their body so I can feel what Is happening. And at some points I can see or I can hear or I can feel pain or imbalances, I can see light and dark and colors. So that gives me an indication of what’s going on and where they need it. You know, purging or if they need modification or if they need energy blockages cleared or. For example, constrictions. Constrictions are interesting to feel when you’re working on someone at a distance because I get into their body and go through this.

Abby (00:20:45) Constriction.

Jeanette (00:20:46) Open.

Jeanette (00:20:49) Frictions typically are not easy. They never go away in one treatment because it’s almost like it has memory.

Abby (00:20:58)

Abby: So like the muscle memory but energetic memory.

Jeanette (00:21:02) Yeah. So it’s like habituated to this constricted energy flow. So time after time, I have to just kind of keep opening and it may take three or four or five sessions. It depends on where the constriction is. Also, depending on the client, if they are self-aware, I will ask them to help me during the session because if the client actually can do it with me, it’s much more effective. So it clears much more easily. Yeah. So yeah, it’s having the person that’s lying there go into, for example, if there’s a constriction down there, their little cavity by the heart space, I’ll just have them go down, sink into that space and just literally make room or if there’s something there, I’ll ask them to move it and quite often they’re able to do it. Yeah.

Abby (00:22:12) Yeah, I found that too. If they work with you, they can move you can move your energy so effectively with, with some guidance and. Yeah. And you’re working together then to two sets of energy instead of what.

Jeanette (00:22:28) Well it’s really important in treatments that the client take an active role during the treatment is good if, if there is something like that that comes up if they can help me clear it or help me open up a blockage or remove a thing that shouldn’t be there, then, it actually will happen much more quickly than if I work on it and try and remove something. It takes me probably 2 to 3 times longer to work through it. I was going to say something else, but it’s gone. It’s funny how it happens.

Abby (00:23:17) It’s like. It’s like a whisper that goes, oh.

Jeanette (00:23:20) It was a good one too.

Abby (00:23:21) Come to you. Feel free to. Interject when it comes back. So what drew you into this kind of work? What did you do towards doing this?

Jeanette (00:23:35) What actually kind of pulled me into this was I didn’t know I was going to go into this to start with, but my brother had passed away from cancer. And it was a hard time because he was in the hospital for months and he was on chemo and he was telling us that he was seeing. Things. And these things were telling him differently, giving him different messages, and he would have conversations and everybody else, everybody thought he was crazy or was the result of the chemotherapy. But I know what I know now, I think he was talking to his guides.

Abby (00:24:29) And what kinds of things was he seeing or describing?

Jeanette (00:24:34) He would be in his hospital room and he would seem like just a little. He didn’t describe what they look like, but small I wouldn’t even call them people, but small creatures or entities or something. And one of them told him that he wasn’t going to die right now, so not to worry. And he lived for five months and he has diagnosed with stage five metastatic cancer, which was in his nervous system and is in the fluid around his brain and everything. And eventually, it did go into his brain. But essentially the chemotherapy went through trying to get him more weeks so that he could get everything organized.

Jeanette (00:25:33) But he ended up having more months like we were. He was released from the hospital and was able to spend time at home with his family and everything. So. Yeah. So it was just messages like that. You’re not going to die immediately. Like, just take the time, take a breath and just get things organized. And it’s just some other things about being able to pass on and not to worry because death is not the end, that there is a constant, constant life afterward.

Abby (00:26:16) It sounds like he had this connection with something in a different, different world and this physical one we’re normally living in. Yeah. For you. At that time, did you feel that it was his guide at that time or what was that like for you to hear that?

Jeanette (00:26:32) Then for I wasn’t that I wasn’t anywhere as sensitive and I at that point, I didn’t know what a guide was like. It was all out there for me. I think the thing that made a huge impact on me was when. The day that he passed, my brother and I were sitting in the waiting room and we both knew we passed because we had his energy come through right almost at the yellow court region. Which area? Yeah, solar plexus is the energy that came through and I immediately knew it was him and he wanted to say thank you.

Jeanette (00:27:22) And the same time I had it, my brother who was sitting beside me had it, except that my brother gave him an extra, like one of those big hugs lifted from the back. So, that was kind of an eye-opener. And my first well, not my first, I think I’ve had brushes with. Things that I didn’t understand before that. But that was like the first real tangible thing where somebody besides me felt the same thing, so it was more real. So what got me into qigong or Chinese energetic medicine was a friend of mine was heading to Vancouver to take a medical qigong course, and she said, You want to go? And I went, I don’t even know what it is, but sure.

Abby (00:28:18) Why not?

Jeanette (00:28:19) I thought it was like tai chi.

Abby (00:28:22) Course or something. Little did you know.

Jeanette (00:28:29) So that’s. That’s how I am. That was my introduction.

Abby (00:28:34) Wow. I guess it was the right time in your life. It feels like the universe just kind of handed this one. Maybe your guides are just like, hey, this is next. Yeah. Sounded like you were open. Yeah. Which was all you needed at that time, I guess.

Jeanette (00:28:49) Yeah, I think everything happens for a reason, so. Yeah. And then. Yeah, since then I have taken an interest.

Abby (00:29:05) Yes. So, yeah Every time I talk to you, you’re like, oh, I’m doing this new Qigong said, I’ve been doing this meditation. Like, it’s like it’s inspiring. It’s just like, you know, someone has found what they’re meant to be doing when they just live and breathe it, you know? Like for Fun.

Jeanette (00:29:24) It’s called I’m one of these people who need to figure it out. And if I can’t figure it out, I learn more and more or take more and more courses.

Abby (00:29:34) Great way to grow. You’re so knowledgeable about it. And it’s yeah, it’s amazing.

Jeanette (00:29:42) The curiosity behind it all. And it’s, it’s amazing how much there is behind this.

Abby (00:29:50) Oh, it feels like it’s not.

Jeanette (00:29:53) Yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s not just t there’s so much behind the practice and the traditions behind it and it’s so powerful. Like, it’s just amazing. That’s all I can see. Amazing.

Abby (00:30:10) Yeah. And it’s one of those things that, like when I’m doing qigong, I mean, lately I’ve been doing these liver and spleen exercises that involve stretching my tendons so it doesn’t feel like soft, flowy tai chi kind of in the park sort of vibe is like me shaking and moaning and like, getting hot and flesh in the face. It’s not pretty, but I know it’s working. It’s working things out of my system. I feel great after, but a lot of it too. It is very gentle and it’s, you know, to think about how much of a return in well being you get for how gentle it can seem or like, Oh, you’re just standing there and meditating and moving breath in different directions, or you’re just like moving your hand down here and imagining and tending.

Abby (00:31:01) The energy goes this way. Like it can seem like. I just like magical or even made up, like, how am I doing stuff? But then you feel phenomenally different. So yeah, I mean I, there’s something to it and this is the work I do too. So I don’t, I’m no longer someone who doubts, but. For a while, I would just be like, Wow, I don’t have to, like go work out or do this invasive procedure I’ll have to do just gentle movement and breath and attention, practice, and what a difference it makes. Yeah.

Jeanette (00:31:32) Yeah,  And as you’re talking about how, how it looks like you’re not doing it, a good, good example is the question the return to spring said because you’re you can stand, you can sit or you can sit cross-legged and you hold your hands in one position. And if somebody was looking at you from the outside, it’s like, how is that healing you?

Abby (00:32:00) I just think you’re meditating. But a lot is going on. There’s inner alchemy happening.

Jeanette (00:32:05) Yeah, the energy movement is just phenomenal. That and the flow of that. You can feel it just by directing your hands in a tent position in front of your chest. And if you’re focused and your hands are in the right position, the flow is amazing. Yeah. And that’s all clearing out and sending energy down to your kidneys.

Abby (00:32:28) Yeah. And a lot of people need energy in their kidneys. I believe a lot of women I worked with, myself included. Just those are the battery banks of the body, is that right?

Jeanette (00:32:40) Yeah, they are, too. And in today’s world, the kidneys most people have are kidney deficient and likely both yin and yang deficient because of the world we live in.

Abby (00:32:55) The go, go, go. Get up and drink coffee. Push, push, push.

Jeanette (00:33:00) Yeah. And the way we relax is to go home and watch TV. But all that visual stimulus is it’s not putting G into you. It’s pulling out of you, and it’s getting your emotions and your senses going. So you’re not relaxing by watching television.

Abby (00:33:18) So what would be a simple way that you could support your kidneys and replenish them?

Jeanette (00:33:26) The best way. I think the most highly effective way is to do the kidney set from the return to spring. That’s my go-to when I’m tired and I feel and there are obvious signs when you’re deficient. It’s like you have an ache in the heel you can’t. Or it’s difficult to fall asleep. You start forgetting things. Some indications in the eyes also tell that your kidney is deficient.

Abby (00:34:00) What would your eyes look like if you’re kidney deficient?

Jeanette (00:34:03) You have a bit of shadowing under the eyes. Yeah. That’s what I would say is for me when I look at somebody the best indication of the deficiency.

Abby (00:34:18) Maybe I’ll.

Jeanette (00:34:19) Go ahead. The lower back or lower back is another one in the morning. That’s a really good identifier of deficiency. That’s something that happens a lot with women during their menstrual cycle like the lower back. And so would that be more taxing on the kidneys for women at that time of the month?

Jeanette (00:34:37) Yeah, it’s the yin deficiency. Yeah. And there’s it’s the kidneys, but it’s also the channels, the main channels that become very deficient. And once those are deficient, the entire body is just. Just kind of collapses into deficiency. And then in terms of women’s health and the liver, she doesn’t move properly to move the blood. And the whole cycle happens where you’ll have pain, cramping, excessive bleeding or. Sometimes it’ll go the other way and it’ll be you won’t have the period. So it just depends on what’s happening.

Abby (00:35:24) It’s usually there’s not enough energy and the energy is not moving as it should be. Yeah. When you say channels, is that the same thing as the Energy Meridian Pathways that acupuncturists work with?

Jeanette (00:35:38) Yes. Yeah, they’re the same. I’ll use the same points. Qigong is Chinese medicine, they’re based on the same system. They all came out of the. The same. Tradition. It’s been around for thousands of years. So.

Abby (00:36:06) Yeah. For some of the books that I know, we had our textbooks in class. They’re about like three inches thick and there are five of them. And this is just like a little peek into the thousands of years old wisdom and research and practice and study. And in this modality.

Abby (00:36:23) It’s pretty amazing. Yeah. And I. I used to get acupuncture done, and I would go and it would hurt because, you know, opening up the channels and forcing it, the needle itself didn’t hurt too much. But I come home when I’d flop on my couch and I would drool because I was so tired from the g like being forced to move. But you’re, you’re doing you’re helping the cheetah move without the use of actual physical needles. And it’s it can to me, it felt like a gentler process, but also effective. It’s nice. I can be at home and I don’t drool after, but it’s just like it’s just. I mean, each process has its place, but, interestingly, we can do this work without needles as well.

Jeanette (00:37:10) Yeah, It’s the same. I mean, acupressure. It can be done without needles. Directing and emitting energy is the same as needles. And you can do a surface-emission or you can go deep. You can direct downwards or upwards, purge everything. I mean, it’s the same, similar, and I think it’s quite often a deeper treatment after qigong treatment. It depends on the type of treatment. It can wipe you out for several hours, especially purging. If you’re purging, you’re going through a detox.

Jeanette (00:38:03) So you will have various reactions. I’m just a woman I’ve been working with since December. I guess the first few sessions I worked with her, she would go through twitching her legs, her feet, and her entire body would twitch on the table. And the first time I worked on her all night, her body just twitched all night long. It just kept moving. And this is the energy opening up and moving through her body. So. You. You have to be ready if you’re going to have a treatment to do nothing for the rest of the day.

Jeanette (00:38:52)  Because if there’s some strong purging or opening of the channels or energy going where there virtually was no flow before. There will be various actions in your life and they will be very physical. Some people have incredibly vivid dreams during the treatment or after the treatment.

Abby (00:39:21) So what’s happening at the energetic level is also affecting their emotions, their mind. It’s all energy that’s interconnected.

Jeanette (00:39:29) Yeah, They’re psyche and their spiritual aspects. So. Yeah.

Abby (00:39:35) Yeah. And it’s so interesting that the things that we think and feel are also so interconnected to what’s going on in our body and our energy and our organ systems. Like, I’ve, I’ve seen people who’ve gotten surgery and they have really difficult emotional experience after because the Meridian Pathways have been cut and the surgery, the liver is overrun with processing things and it processes the emotions as well as filters and cleans the blood of toxins. So all of a sudden when the liver is burdened, then all emotions become overwhelming.

Abby (00:40:12) And it’s funny. It’s like we support the organ systems and it also addresses things like overwhelm and helps with things like anxiety, and depression, when we release these blockages. Yeah,  Something that I noticed, too, when I’ve been doing my check on exercises, it’s been giving me more energy physically, but I also feel just so, so light emotionally. Like I’ll go outside for a walk and I just look at everything. My husband laughs at me. Dave laughs at me. Like, every time we go out, you say it’s a beautiful day. No matter what kind of day it is. Like it is. It’s a beautiful day. Look at those trees. Just, like, feel happy.

Jeanette (00:40:55)  That’s good. It’s. Well, yeah, it’s because you’re. You’re because your body is functioning, right. And you don’t have that turbidity and toxicity in you. Yes. So you’re lighter. Everything’s lighter, everything’s brighter. Yeah. And like when I work on people, when I step into them, I can see the darkness or the gray, and like, I literally can see on one side, it’s quite common for me to step in. I can just see the darkness on this side. And it’s just because they’ve got some sort of constriction down on the ankle and the t isn’t flowing out. So it’s just building out. Building, building out. And it’s just as a matter of just basically opening up the feet and going and just directing it and then it clears itself.

Jeanette (00:41:51) It’s but that’s how you see it going outside, right? Because you don’t have that turbidity that you’re having to look through.

Abby (00:41:58) Yeah. It’s just like the filter that grays out. The world is not there and it’s so much easier to see the beauty of the world. Yeah, we briefly chatted about this before we started recording about just things popping into people’s energy fields. I was like, Oh, that wasn’t there last week. Where did this thing come from? Let’s clear it out. It’s like I think of it as energetic hygiene. Like we take a shower every day to clean our body, but then there’s our energy field. And wouldn’t it be great if we had this, like, normalized in our society where we learn how to like, feel the energy in our body and release things that are blocking it?

Jeanette (00:42:35) Yeah. And you can do, I mean it’s if you with a little bit of practice, you can do this yourself. It’s like you can set the energy by controlling your weight field. You can change the space around you by pulling in different energies. The higher frequency energies in your outer field will change the space because the energy in your outer fields is connected to the liver and the heart, which are the more spiritual energies connected to Shin. There is a higher frequency either. Different colors, but they also come with a set of emotions that are yang. Let me see how I can explain this positively.

Jeanette (00:43:37) Our emotions, like in terms of electrical charge, you have negative positives. So negative is very physical or low vibration type energy, which are the slower emotions like grief or fear or worries, OCD type rage, anger. And then you have the higher set of emotions which are from the liver, for example, compassion, kindness, or from the heart, which is peace, order. So if you are to tap into those emotions and those organs and bring them and just all you have to do is think about them. And they will come out and they will fill just basically your outer field will start activating. And the universal chi or the chi that is up there, the cosmic g will automatically come and it will move out from your way field and fill the space.

Jeanette (00:44:49) And it will move towards. The negative because it’s electrical and it will change space. So the people with other people in that space. It will transition and change the way their emotions are coming. It will give you. You will change because you’ve automatically used intention to change the emotion. So your whole state of being will change almost just like that, just by tapping into those high-frequency emotions. Or actually, I shouldn’t call them emotions. Virtues, I should call them.

Abby (00:45:35) Yeah. Passion, kindness. And is. Is it as simple as just thinking of compassion and kindness and just letting yourself feel that for no reason at all, and let that kind of radiate out from you feeling your energy?

Jeanette (00:45:48) Compassion. Yeah, exactly. Compassion is probably the easiest. It’s like flipping a switch. You can have compassion for something in any situation. If there’s someone who’s crying, you can have compassion for if there’s someone who’s just in this total worry, some friend you can have compassion for. So it’s almost like you flip the switch and you can just touch your liver and you can just go into compassion if you. And it doesn’t matter where you are, you should. It’s so easy to tap into that compassion, the heart.

Jeanette (00:46:38) It would be much more difficult because of their more difficult virtues of peace and harmony. It’s really difficult to tap into your heart amid chaos. So I always kind of go-to suggest that people go to the river and if they can’t do that, then think about guanine. That will change immediately as well. Just bring that energy down. Just all you have to do is think about the goddess of mercy, and that will change the energy around you as well. I mean.

Abby (00:47:19) Nine years ago when we were in training and our teacher had all of these different deities and gods and goddesses, those pictures up on the wall. And we were walking by and it was like, Oh, I walked my companion’s image and she spoke to me, the only one that day and very loud and clear, like, oh, wow, you’re here. Okay.

Abby (00:47:38) Very compassionate, loving, being. Yeah. And when you. And just so wait. She says that someone’s energy feels like an energetic feeling that radiates out from them and that extends beyond the physical body. Yeah.  And that’s the place that we want to have filled with Archie, our energy. And as we do that, then we don’t get other stray stuff collecting in our field.

Jeanette (00:48:04 ) Yeah, it’s, it’s some for the most part. It is your outer fields through the protective fields within you, within your body. They are part of you, they are you, they’re your energy. And the further out you go, the purer the energy and those are. And you want to keep them strong no matter where you are. You need to have your way to feel there because they are your boundaries. If your fields are kind of collapsing inwards, you’ll feel threatened, you’ll feel very vulnerable. But all you need to do is think of positive virtue. And it will just activate and you’ll have your own if you need boundaries or if you need your own space, for example, it will be there as soon as you activate.

Abby (00:49:07) It makes me think of a kind of meditation, metta meditation or called loving-kindness meditation. People just meditate, feeling, loving-kindness, just feeling it for somebody, someone something themself just radiating, loving-kindness. And they just imagine what their inner energy fields are like. People who practice that every day. What a beautiful way to bring beautiful energy into the world. But it’s also very, very protective because it would keep your energy very cleansed like their energetic hygiene is on point with that.

Jeanette (00:49:46) Yeah. But it’s also. It’s also a way of transforming other energies.

Jeanette (00:49:54) Yeah. Because so. Yeah, it’s just what it touches when you feel a good example is when you walk into a room and there’s someone there’s always somebody warm, you know? You know that they’re this warm, open, loving person. You don’t even have to see them. All you have to do is sense. And as soon as you sense them, you change. Yes. And it’s yeah, it’s that frequency. It just, you know, and if you can kind of activate your own and bring down the energy, it will eventually go out and transform. It’s like using this to set the intention to change the space.

Abby (00:50:44) Yeah, it’s beautiful.

Jeanette (00:50:45) That’s. Yeah

Abby (00:50:47) And it’s like a practice. It starts just feeling the compassion and seeing it grow and letting it grow from there. And I remember when we used to go to these other yoga classes, our favorite teacher, she was just like that. She was just so loving and warm and kind. And in class she would say, every class, like the beginning of class, you welcome people, get people into the energy. And she would say, I think it was the beginning or end. I love you to everybody in class like collectively, but you could feel the energy of it was like she meant it and it was so touching to have this one, this person you don’t know, but just this unconditional love radiating out from them. And it was just such a beautiful, transformative energy and experience to be in, just washing in this person’s love. It’s just amazing.

Jeanette (00:51:37) Yeah. It’s just, you know, it’s. It’s that frequency from that. That virtue or emotion that it’s just it’s universal. It’s just all surrounding everything. Everything is full. Even the furniture, the, you know, my laptop, my books, they’re all radiating. And we’re moving to that frequency. It’s beautiful. It’s that vibration of the frequency.

Abby (00:52:14) It’s a beautiful frequency to fill yourself with and to fill your space or your home with too. Yeah,

Jeanette (00:52:21)  And it’s when you have compassion, you have compassion for the world.

Abby (00:52:29) Well, on that note, we’ll begin wrapping it up, but it has been beautiful. Is there anything else that you want to share, any messages you’d want for people to know about, you know, healing or well-being or energy or whatever you like?

Jeanette (00:52:47)  I’m just trying to think. I think for the most part. To understand qigong and what she is you have to have to look inwards. And you also, to feel her, you have to feel she or you have to have cheated. So if you’ve never worked with qigong before, don’t be afraid. If you can’t feel it, it just means that you don’t have enough qi in your body built up so that you can recognize what it is. So maybe go and take some cheek or some tai chi or qigong or some sort of form that actually. And actually, it could be yoga. Yoga builds cheap as well. Or meditation will build. Just take some beginner courses and start building the QI in your body. And that will enable you to feel. Chee, which is you’re feeling a vibration, a frequency of energy.

Abby (00:54:05) And thank you. It’s like an awakening of the energetic field of awakening to learn how to feel this dimension.

Jeanette (00:54:15) Yeah.  It’s. It’s an amazing, amazing thing. Just by running one hand over the other, I can feel it’s just an incredible feeling of feeling the tree.

Abby (00:54:28) It’s beautiful. And so people can find you. So they can find you. In the mentorship. Coming up in May, you’re working with our current mentor group, which is wonderful because we do such powerful shifting and spiritual and shamanic and transformative work and it takes a lot of qi to do that. And so I’m just so happy that you are there helping the group to help to support the group, to help them lift their energy out so they become stronger. And everything that we move through becomes lighter and easier by extension in their lives too. So really happy to have you here. I feel like it’s such an integral part of healing and transformation and energy work and spiritual work and emotional work is just having this strong foundation. And I feel like the Qigong is just so good at creating that.

Jeanette (00:55:27)  Yeah. It’s so nice to be able to teach people how to connect because the connection is quite easy. It’s just for the first time to connect up there and be. Being there is quite eye-opening.

Abby (00:55:43) Yes. It’s amazing.

Jeanette (00:55:44)  It’s an amazing feeling. Yeah, I love doing what I do.

Abby (00:55:52) It’s you know, I can tell. It shows. And on that note, too, if people want to book a one-on-one session with you, they can find more information about you at, which is J, e, a, n, e, t, t, and e. Well, thank you for being here, my dear. It’s been a pleasure.

Jeanette (00:56:18) Yeah, well, thanks for inviting me. It was fun. Always fun. Take care.


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19-Come Home to Yourself

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Come Home To Yourself

In episode 19 – Come Home to Yourself, we unpack the symptoms and reasons for feeling disconnected from your true self, and what you can do to reconnect with who you really are. This episode is for anyone who struggles with feeling stuck, alone, anxious or depressed. Or for anyone who feels disconnected from their emotions, body or life.

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Full Show Transcript

Abby (00:00:00) Hello. Welcome to the Mind Body Free Podcast. I am your host, Abigail Moss. I’m so excited to have you here. I am a healer, a coach, and a mentor. I help people to heal their minds, their body, their spirits, remember their magic, their purpose, and share their gifts with the world. And today, I want to talk to you about the symptoms that so many of us are experiencing around the world, and have been experiencing for many generations, for many centuries, this concept of connection and disconnection.

Abby (00:00:45) And I feel when we get down to the root of things, the biggest core piece that I’ve found is a sense of disconnection that creates suffering, and that is a disconnection with our true selves, with who we are authentic, with our spirit, with our heart and soul, disconnection with our body, with the messages our body is giving us. When it’s telling us, Hey, I need you to slow down. I need you to let go of these thoughts. I need you to eat or drink differently, to live differently. Messages from Mother Nature.

Abby (00:01:22) The way we live on the planet. We don’t feel that connection with Mother Earth. We don’t realize that when we damage the Earth, we’re damaging ourselves, both spiritually and practically. The Earth is our mother. It is literally what makes up the elements of our bodies, and it is the one that sustains life, that keeps us alive, that nourishes us. And as we harm the Earth, if we put toxins in the Earth, those toxins end up right back to us. And spiritually, the earth is a part of who we are too. We are an extension and evolution of nature, and to harm the mother is to harm the self and each other.

Abby (00:02:06) If we feel disconnected from each other, if we feel isolated, if we feel alone, it is like the leaf that falls off of the tree. We don’t have the nourishment of the larger community, the larger organism that is the collective, and that connection with each other. It can lift us, it can inspire us. It is where we go to co-create and collaborate and feel loved and held and share our love. So connection and disconnection, it’s such a core piece of how we feel in life, how we experience life and ourselves.

Abby (00:02:49) And with that, there is the ego. So the egoic mind is a part of creating disconnection, as was part of creating separation, and that has a place that has its value in the physical world on the Earth plane, we need some degree of separation between self and other so that I know I am me and you are you when you are in pain doesn’t mean that I am in pain. And that’s good because it means I can take care of you and it’s a balance. So if there’s too much sense of separation, I can forget that I am also connected to you.

Abby (00:03:30) I am one leaf on the tree, but I’m also, by extension, the whole tree and connected to you as another leaf on that tree. So it’s finding the balance and it’s remembering that within all of these different perspectives and senses of separation, there’s also the greater wholeness of each of us, of life, of the universe. Alan Watts said You are a focal point in which the whole universe looks out. You can imagine that within each of you, as Rumi said, the universe dwells inside you. Within each of us, there is an infinite and infinite expanse of consciousness of possibility, because we are connected to all that is, and all that is is connected to us.

Abby (00:04:28) And the way that we lookout is a focal point of all of that. And our consciousness is a beautiful celebration of life because if we don’t have a sense of separation, it’s harder to experience individuality, to experience new things if you’re simply infinity forever. So we come into this world of duality, of light and dark, and all of the shades in between. And that gives us the breadth and depth of. Periods of life where we can have new experiences as individual consciousness, and in those experiences grow and evolve our consciousness.

Abby (00:05:11) Until many believe, I sense that we are eventually ready to return to a greater, infinite sense of oneness. We go through these cycles, the birth of the soul, this individual experience of learning, and then coming back home to oneness. And with that, there’s also the individual sense of separation from self. So if you think about each of us as a soul, as a spirit, we have our unique essence, our unique consciousness, the signature. That is who we are, our energy.

Abby (00:05:53) And we are that observing consciousness, the witness having this experience of life, making decisions, experiencing the results of those decisions as we go throughout our lifetimes and as we go throughout these lifetimes, as we go through simply one lifetime growing up as a baby and into adulthood, we are biologically programmed within instinct to fit in with the tribe so that we can stay alive because we not as much today.

Abby (00:06:30) Well, yeah, actually, we are still very much in many ways dependent on each other and civilization on society for keeping us alive in this big, wild world of earth where we support each other we’re meant to have different rules that we then share and complement with each other. And this societal structure, this part of us that is social, wants to fit in with the tribe. We are biologically programmed to fit in. When we come into this world, we see as babies, can I have a place where I belong? Because that is how I will survive.

Abby (00:07:08) Especially when we’re young. We’re helpless. Can I be loved? Can I belong? Is what we’re looking for. And so we can mold ourselves. We learn to mold ourselves into the ways that we think other people want us to be. And we do that as a form of survival so that we can stay amongst the tribe and be accepted. And so that can mean smiling when we don’t feel happy or saying we will want to do something or will do something when it doesn’t feel right in our bodies.

Abby (00:07:44) And that can evolve more and more into growing up and taking a job that we feel we should take, even though we don’t want it, or following a life path that doesn’t excite or inspire us at all, maybe even makes us feel less and less alive because we think that’s the path we’re quote-unquote, supposed to take. We take it. So it’s like a habit that develops from a very young, initially out of a need for survival. And then it just becomes this habit of doing what others want us to do instead of listening to what we want to do. And as babies and young children, we come into the world with very good boundaries usually.

Abby (00:08:25) So children are not typically shy about telling you how they feel, what they do want, what they don’t want, what they’re comfortable with, what they aren’t comfortable with. They can vocalize that quite loudly. But as we get older, we learn to calm that part of ourselves. We learn to appease others, and that’s not all bad. We do have a degree of compliance that all live and work together as a toddler. We don’t want to let them take the crayon and draw all over your friends or our friend’s wall or our wall, typically. So it’s a balance, right? But we learn as kids, we get this habit of doing what others want us to do, even when we don’t want to.

Abby (00:09:11) And over enough time, we can even forget what it is that we even wanted in the first place. And that part of us, that inner voice that says that points you in the direction of what feels good for you. It gets muffled out and it gets quiet down behind layers and layers of social conditioning to belong within the tribe. And that’s where we can fall into patterns of depression and anxiety. This feeling of dullness or emptiness in life, because we’re going through these motions and these motions that aren’t exciting or even really feel like us. So for me, I remember going through a period of my life where I felt like I was just living in this dream-like I was living somebody else’s life.

Abby (00:10:06) And I felt alienated from my own life and myself. And later on, I went down a healing journey through plant medicines and shamanic training, and much more. But it was a symptom of not being connected with and aligned with my authentic self. I’m not even knowing where or what that part of me was. I had been going through the motions for so long of doing what my egoic mind thought I wanted, what I identified with as successful and good. And this will make me happy.

Abby (00:10:45) And just trying to push through to make that work, even though it wasn’t what my heart really, truly wanted. And some of us can go through our whole life this way of not knowing the deeper part of ourselves inside and others. You know, we’ll get glimpses of that, those moments that feel so alive and free, where we’re touching our soul and even maybe expressing a part of ourselves. And that’s such a beautiful experience to taste that and to dip your toe into that. And for those of you who felt that you know what I’m talking about, those moments that are just so vivid, so present, so beautiful in that way.

Abby (00:11:32) And if you haven’t felt that, hey, that is okay, it is still available to you, that part of you is still inside. And a lot of people right now are feeling a calling, the sense of, I need to find something. I don’t know what that is, but I need to find it. And I felt that calling years ago when I was on my beginning, my path of healing and awakening. And I think those two things kind of go together like two sides of the same coin or two parts of an interdimensional door to your soul and the universe. But that calling is the biggest place that comes from is your soul.

Abby (00:12:17) It’s that part of you that is saying, Hey, find me. You need to find me. I’m here. I’m here. I’m waiting for you to come to find me so that we can dance in this magic of life. So that we can share these gifts. Unlock these gifts that are inside of you. This purpose that you have here in this pivotal time on earth is calling for us to awaken to who we truly are and to share our gifts with the world, those gifts that are so needed. I feel in a sense that calling is a part of this awakening, this birthing of consciousness, of a new era on earth, perhaps. And answering that calling can feel overwhelming.

Abby (00:13:07) It can feel like, where do I even begin? I know I need to do something, but what? What do I need to do? Where do I need to find this? There’s this overwhelming urge, but the details are not laid out. I don’t know where to begin looking, and that’s how I felt anyway. And if you’re there, then I feel you. I’ve been there. For me, it was overwhelming. It was all-consuming in many ways. And I just knew I needed to find this thing that seemed just beyond my reach, just beyond my grasp. Or I could almost pierce through the veil and grab it. But I just couldn’t quite bring it into clarity, into conscious awareness yet.

Abby (00:13:50) And so I spent seven years learning how to do that, learning a path back to myself through traveling different parts of the world, working with shamans, studying yoga philosophy and practices, learning shamanic healing, how to work with the mind and release unhealthy patterns and beliefs, and working with plant medicines that are expansive and consciousness and deeply healing for me anyway. And working with energy and learning qigong and Chinese shamanism and learning how to integrate all of these things, which are both tools for healing and awakening. So two sides of the interdimensional door as we heal the painful things. Which are things like past traumas.

Abby (00:14:47) Emotions get stuck in the body and cause the energy to stop flowing in the body. Which leads to pain, fatigue, illness, beliefs that are not in alignment with our true nature, with our true essence as we learn to release these things. And with that also external energies. So things like entities that can kind of run amok, kind of look at them as opportunistic energies that can kind of create chaos in people’s lives until you learn how to deal with them. So as we release things like this, we are healing. And as we release things like this, we are pulling off the layers between your awareness and your true self.

Abby (00:15:32) So you can imagine every untrue belief, like not feeling worthy, not feeling good enough or strong enough or good or lovable, or like you belong. Those are all different layers, different veils, covering up your true self. And as you pull off each layer, it’s healing. It is like pulling a thorn out of your side. That was creating anxiety, overwhelm, depression, and pain. As you pull that out, you naturally begin healing your body, your spirit, your mind. And as you do that, it is easier and easier to connect with that part of you that is infinite. That is why that is magical. That has all the answers to who you are and what you’re meant to be doing here in this lifetime.

Abby (00:16:22) So they happen at the same time, layer by layer, piece by piece, releasing that, which is untrue. And as we do that, this is the first step that I do with my mentor students and my mentorship program, which is beginning to heal what creates the most suffering, healing it from the nervous system, from the body, from the spirit, from the mind. And as we do that, we’re creating space inside of ourselves to feel at home in the body, to feel at ease and calm. That’s number one. So if we’re carrying around, I like to joke that it’s like a big boulder.

Abby (00:16:59) So if we’re carrying around grief and depression, I have this big boulder in my arms and whatever I do, I’m going to bring that with me. So let me go figure out my life purpose. I might just bring this boulder with me as I go. And it’s like, Oh, no, we can’t do that. It’s too exhausting and taxing and distracting to be carrying around all that pain. So the first thing we do is learn how to put the boulder down. And as you do that, there’s so much more space and freedom and energy inside of you. And from there we can connect with who you truly are.

Abby (00:17:34) And that is a process of remembering, of coming home to your heart and letting your heart guide you to give you messages and insight and wisdom. And the heart is a portal to the soul. And in this portal, you learn how to connect with your divine essence inside of you. And you learn how to let that guide you. And you learn how to connect with other parts of you to navigate this life on earth from your most wise, magical, infinite self. So we learn how to listen to the heart, how to speak with your future self who is already doing all of the things that you’re meant to be doing.

Abby (00:18:17) So you don’t have to figure out, How do I do it? What is my purpose? What does that look like? That’s not something that your conscious mind will have easy access to. So that can be stressful trying to figure that all out so we don’t do that. Instead, we go inward, we connect with your inner wisdom and we move forward in time and get a glimpse of what your future self is already doing. And we ask that part of you how you got there, what you’re doing, who you’re doing it with, all of those kinds of questions. And we bring that wisdom, that insight, that guidance back into your life today.

Abby (00:18:55) And from there, having tasted this future life that is available to you and getting clarity on how to get there, now you have this clear path before you where you know where you’re going and you know how you’re doing it. And then it’s just taking step by step, one foot in front of the other, moving towards this place that is clear and beautiful in front of you. And it is so much more fun to manifest from this place of insight and wisdom and magic and all of the things that we do can move us in that direction. And what an incredible thing to have your mind be a servant to your heart, to support you in creating the life you want to live, but already getting to see and touch and feel what that life is.

Abby (00:19:47) So you know, you’re moving in the right direction. This all comes from connecting with who you truly are, with letting go of the beliefs of who we think we should be, of who others want us to be, of what is acceptable to be letting go of all of that so that you can remember and discover who you truly are and what you are here to do in this world and this lifetime. And it’s a beautiful thing to awaken to. And as you awaken to that. Your life begins to change in ways that you couldn’t predict. Things start aligning as you realize what you want and who you are.

Abby (00:20:37) The world starts bringing that in front of your vision, in front of you and offering to you more and more of that so you can begin creating more and more of that in your life. And things shift in synchronistic, beautiful, magical, unpredictable ways. And it’s part of just being on your path. Part of being connected with who you truly are. I don’t want to say they get easier because there will always be challenges in life. But when you have the tools to release the triggers that come up for each of us, that’s just part of being alive on earth. We’ve all been through experiences this lifetime and other lifetimes, releasing the triggers.

Abby (00:21:24) You learn how to do that to create space and freedom inside of you. You learn how to heal your body through things like breath and movement and awareness and intention. Very gentle things that are surprisingly, very, very powerful for healing. As you learn how to listen to your inner wisdom, to access your inner magic and the gifts that are wanting to come through you and be expressed in the world. As you do that, it becomes a different way of experiencing life where, yes, there are challenges, but you get stronger and you have this inner guidance system to help you navigate them. And with that, it’s also not about doing it all alone.

Abby (00:22:13) If I mentioned we’re here to support each other and find your tribe and your community, your people who will support you. For who you are, who will welcome you, you know, where you’re not too much, where what you were. The magic is wanted, where the healing gifts are wanted for those who are ready to receive it, who are ready to talk about it and grow together. That’s a big part of it, too, is having that sense of community where you can come and practice being who you truly are and be celebrated for that and grow together with others who are like you in their way.

Abby (00:22:59) So for me, that was the culmination of seven years of experimenting and trying and failing and trying again and traveling and learning from all of these different, incredible, beautiful beings in different parts of the world, offering gifts in different ways. And with that, I decided my purpose here is to help others awaken to their magic, heal inside of them, and to share their gifts with the world. And so I created a roadmap where over six months we connect through a supportive, accepting, beautiful community of people where you are welcome exactly as you are. And we learn tools, the tools that I found to be the most powerful, direct, clear ways of finding freedom, of connecting with who you are, and sharing your gifts with the world.

Abby (00:23:59) So we learn these tools, this road map back home to yourself, to feeling at home inside of you, where you belong, to remembering who you are and what you came here to do, and to share that with the world. And that’s what I teach in my mentorship program, this six-month journey of coming home to yourself ultimately. If you are feeling that calling in your path at this time, know that you are not alone, that you do have incredible gifts to share. We all do it in our way. They are there inside of you. Everyone comes into the world with their own original medicine, with the gifts that they’ve come here to share.

Abby (00:24:46) And because you have them, you are worthy and you are good enough to share them and to access this part inside of you. And it’s just a matter of the will and some support and guidance to do that, to find your way home and to express who that being is and the way that feels most freeing and joyful to you. So if that’s something that calls to you, my next mentorship is starting in May, and it’s going to be a beautiful class. Each class just feels so magical and each group is so different and beautiful in its way. So it was taught by myself and one of my previous classmates when we were studying shamanic Chinese medicine. Her name is Jeanette Lee, and she teaches Qigong, a Chinese energetic medicine within the mentorship as well.

Abby (00:25:47) So she’s teaching people how to work with their energy field, how to awaken their energy field, how to heal their body through the use of energy work. It’s really beautiful to have her supporting people in the group as well. So if this is something that calls to you, even if you’re not sure, but a part of you feels like this could be a path for me, then I encourage you to reach out to schedule a free discovery, call with myself, and from there you can feel into what this is all about and check inside to see if this is right for you. So sending you, my love. If you have any questions, you can reach me at

Abby (00:26:37) You can find me on Instagram and Facebook at your mind, body free and wherever you are in your path, in your journey, I’m sending you so much love and I know that you can create you can do whatever it is you’re meant to be doing in this life. All right. Take care. Talk soon.